The_Philosopher said:
As you might of seen already, OoS-Imitation-Cheese has made a hate thread about my role in reporting about the various Osw wars.
Please explain how you interpreted any sliver of hate from my post.
The_Philosopher said:
It was a reaction to my requesting him to leave my LR/BH thread,
That thread has been a long time coming. You asking me to leave your thread was simply the last, little bit of motivation I needed to make it. I've been wanting to make that thread for over a year.
The_Philosopher said:
because he was spreading unproven accusations about me which had nothing to do with the thread topic.
Here's what I said:
OoS-Imitation-Cheese said:
I have a comment.
Why is iG speaking through you?
I don't believe what you're saying is true, phil. It seems to me that you're making up PMs from supposed iG contacts to try and get the LR side fired up enough to respond.
Where is the false accusation there? It's called an opinion - hence the use of the phrase "I don't believe."
The_Philosopher said:
His reactionary thread, however, does raise some interesting discussion points. Basically, I feel he asks three main questions:
1. Why do some clan leaders put a gag order on their clans?
2. Why do they bother forum lurking?
3. Why do these leaders use people like the_philosopher (me) to convey information?
Yep - those are my questions.
The_Philosopher said:
Let’s start with one. Why do clan leaders do this? For the same reason men spend obscene amounts of time looking at female breasts. IT IS IN THEIR NATURE.
What?
The_Philosopher said:
If you look outside of the kaw world, you will see countless of world leaders make an attempt to control information. Indeed looking at history you can see many examples where the control or lack of control of information affected the outcome of a war.
I’ll use my own country of America for an example. One of the primary reasons we lost the Vietnam war was because the US government did a bad job of controlling the press. The press was allowed to go and report almost whatever they wanted to, and as a result reports and images of war atrocities became public, turning the greater population against the war.
The government learned their lesson, however, and applied it to their next major invasion: Grenada. Don’t remember Grenada? Good! That’s exactly as the government planned it. The US invaded the Caribbean island country in 1983 under the pretense of freeing it from oppressive communist government. Unlike Vietnam, however, the press was not allowed to stroll all over the island talking to whomever they wanted to. Access to people and places were severely limited and as a result the public got little more than the government-approved version of the war. The war was thought to be a moral success and has since fallen off the radar.
What has been does in real life also applies to Kaw. All parties involved-Apoc, Zaft, Regulators, iG- are all in some ways attempting to control the image of how this war is progressing. True, the strategies are different, but in essence they are all trying to control the information in one way or another. Why Mr. Cheese expects Kaw to be different from the real world is beyond me. After all, given the fact that the LR/BH war started with name calling in the forum, can we really expect them not to try and control information?
Excellent point! I agree with your point.
To the little side remark about me expecting KaW to be different from the real world, it's funny that you say that. I regularly say that KaW is a reflection of real life. Many people have tried arguing this with me by saying KaW is "just a game." However, I am keen to remind them that this isn't a closed-loop PvE game - we're playing against and with
real human beings.
So sorry, but no, I don't expect KaW to be different from real life.
The_Philosopher said:
Now for two. Why do these leaders talk to people like me? This is also very natural. Maybe Mr. Cheese has not heard of it, but it is called REPORTING.
Nope, never heard of it.
The_Philosopher said:
Many people want to get their message out, but because of *** find it more to their advantage to have a third party cushion. Remember Deep Throat? (No, not the Linda Lovelace movie, the Watergate informant) Why did he talk to Bob Woodward instead of announcing publicly what he knew? Perhaps it was a due to the real possibility that he would be killed over what he knew? Good enough reason for me.
That's just it, though - you're talking about a direct consequence that may arise as a result of a forum post. In order for there to be a real consequence, there must be an enforcement mechanism. The way I see it, these clans are already at war. The only consequence that they may face in making a forum post might be that they are kicked from their clan. The opposing clan is already fighting them, so there is nothing further they can do to harm the poster.
The_Philosopher said:
Also, just as much as those in power want to control the information, there is also an innate need in humans to express our opinions, to “right wrongs” so to speak. However many good leaders remain the strong silent type because a blunder could be portrayed as a sign of weakness.
No faith in their clanmates to make a reasonable post is bad enough, but you're saying that even the leader(s) lack the confidence to engage in public discourse?
The_Philosopher said:
Those familiar with the original Star Trek series might recall the episode The Seed, where the Kirk and the Enterprise find Kahn and the Botany Bay. During the banquet seen Kirk has Spock grill Kahn about his past, while Kirk sat nearby saying nothing, but watching for weakness in his enemy. It was a brilliant strategy where Kahn learned nothing about Kirk but Kirk learned a lot of about Kahn. Therefore the lurking of leaders is common in world at large, so we shouldn’t be frustrated and hurt when it happens in KaW.
Correct, because Star Trek is real life. Comon, Phil...
Star Trek? Really?
The_Philosopher said:
Why me? Why contact Phil? Well, why do athletes get biographers and ghost writers to write their stories instead of doing it themselves? Because they acknowledge that someone else may be able to express their ideas more eloquently. Not to sound off my own horn too much, but I do write for a living. Actually I report for a living. Hell, I write several thousand words everyday! Is it that surprising that some people may acknowledge this skill and ask me to moderate these threads?
I would buy this if you would say who you're speaking for in your posts. If, for example, I need something done for me that I can't do well, I will hire a consultant or contractor to do it for me. A case in point is programming an Arduino board for a mechanical device I designed. I am a junior mechanical engieer, but I SUCK at programming. When I need something coded for me, I hire someone I know to do it for me. What the code needs to do is dictated by me. How it gets done is up to the programmer. In your case, the purpose of the code is the message of those who come to you to communicate on their behalf, and you would be the programmer. There is no shame in admitting you suck at something, and in my opinion, hiding it is disgraceful. However, it is in your own personal interest to be diabolically opposed to my position on this particular subject, so I won't be surprised to hear your dissenting rebuttal.
The_Philosopher said:
My threads tend to focus on Kaw-related subjects and history which tend to be enjoyed by the players. It started with my three history threads about the Osiris/Ya_judgment_fi/Zaft wars which I got plenty of feedback on.
That series of threads was a very entertaining read. Thanks for putting it together. I think a lot of unanswered questions were addressed.
The_Philosopher said:
As for the LR/BH-iG thread, I’m surprised as anyone. I made a simple three-line thread asking for predictions. A day later the thread had 50 pages. Sometimes people just get lucky and hit upon a topic that strikes a nerve with the general public. When the Apoc/Zaft war started on the very first day I got a dozen or so pms asking about where the thread is. I started one up, but when Apoc and then Zaft decided to make their own threads, I let mine go so they could take over. However when those threads fizzled out and the LR/BH thread was getting quite heated, people once again asked me to make a thread about Zaft/Apoc. Apparently, people respect my journalism and trust me to make an interesting thread . Now I am sorry if that makes me come off as meddlesome, conceited, or an intention-seeker but that’s just the way things panned out, Mr. Cheese. Please learn to live with that.
The difference between the Os/Yafi/AAH threads and the newer ones you've made is that you're now giving us a blow by blow and taking in new information through undisclosed third parties.
The Os/Yafi/AAH thread was more of a history lesson, looking back on what had already transpired.
You're comparing apples with oranges here, Phil.
The_Philosopher said:
In short, the behavior of clans and players in the KaW community is no different than it is in any other ***. While this might not be ideal behavior, it is nonetheless perfectly normal human behavior. Let’s just acknowledge it and get back to playing the game.
I completely agree, but do you think that means we should be discouraged from discussing it? You gotta admit that it's an interesting topic. I mean, we're talking about the ins and outs of the psychological warfare of various clans.
