Every time a dumb kid commits a crime lets charge their parents with it instead! That will learn em good!
By USA law parents are responsable for their kids crime. And US supreme Court already said this law is fine. Parents rights organisations claimed that parents can't be held responsible for actions they wasn't aware of. Supreme Court said that reasonably attentive parent should have known about and prevented. And juvenile-mature can't be discussed without environment-parents. Otherwise its simple. 12 years old is juvenile.
I can agree with parents being responsible for the actions of their kids in most circumstances, but this is just so much different. Stealing, lieing, bullying, ect.. I remember when slender man first came out, it was spooky. There were a handful of short clip. Nothing I could imagine being anything worse than typical ghost stories. And even being 100% active in monitoring all aspects of your children's activities, you as a parent, are only finding out after you discover what they have come across. Seriously, there is no step by step "how to not raise a sociopathic, homicidal, miniature Jeffrey Dolmer". Do I know there are bears in my region? Are these "woods" just the three achers of my property that kids have grown up on for generations? Have any of the kids from those generations ever done anything to hurt another while they where climbing those trees with my dog old yeller by their side? ?? If I knew there where bears about then yes. It would be my fault. A lot of people are posting as if this is clearly one way or the other. It's not, it's the complete opposite. Are these two kids related? I honestly don't know. Single parent house holds? Abusive families? Do they have a history of hurting animals?
First of all these children need something different than jail, as they are clearly mentally ill, but that is a different issue. Either way, these children are going to eventually be released. And either way they will be messed up. Neither option is going to teach "them a lesson". Giving them "not enough time" in a juvenile jail may still have an insane 18 year old released, but leaving them to rot for 30 years and ruining their whole youth will do the same. What is more important is how their mental health is dealt with. And I think putting them in the juvenile jail gives them more opportunities to do that, while also not ruining the children's whole life.
Alright. I've been silent for 16 pages, so now I'll weigh in and then ke the convo continue. I threw this topic out because there really are no easy answers, but many of the posts brought forward made for good reading. Its interesting to see how many different approaches there are to this predicament. First off, are the parents to blame? I'm going to say...... Yes, at least in part. Parents should be in tune with what their kids are doing. These girls shouldn't have been allowed to surf the net unsupervised. I know this stand will make me I popular with the kids here, but, KIDS AT HOME HAVE NO RIGHT TO PRIVACY. Parents should constantly be aware of what their kids are doing because parents are there to protect their children from things that their kids may encounter. The Internet is full of dark places. If I had a kid, I'd demand access to his/her emails, and I'd want to do random checks on their text messages too. I also want a record of what web sites they have visited. Why? Because kids do dumb things and I, as a daddy need to try and stop the worst of it from impacting my kids in horrible ways. Now that I've stated that, some people are inherently broken, and I think that's what these two kids are. They are simply broken. Millions of people play grand theft auto and lead normal lives. The few who play grand theft auto and shoot up a shopping mall were disturbed and dangerous long before they started playing that game. The same can be said for for these girls. They were dangerous long before they went to the creepy pasta website (home of slender man). The stories there didn't make these girls do these terrible acts. These girls were broken to start with and the creepy pasta web site was simply a catalyst. If creepy pasta wasn't around, then it would have been some other damn thing that set them off. My question goes back to the parents. How can you have such broken individuals and not see the warning signs? The same can be said for the school system. I cannot believe that these girls lived in a bubble. The teachers, the teachers assistants, and litterally anyone around them should have seen some kind of warning sign. 12 year old girls don't just "snap" like that with out displaying warning signs. So, since the parents and the school and the counselors all failed these two kids, should these kids receive the full brunt of the Punishment? My answer is "No". They do, however, need help, and major amounts of it. My solution would be to try them as adults. This means they will have a record. A record of this behavior is very important, as society needs to know the past deeds of people who commit egregious acts, no matter how young. My punishment would be to remand them to a psychiatric ward and get them professional help. These kids may not be released from the psyche wars until they have been medically cleared and are considered cured. They may never be cured, in which case, they would remain in the institution forever, but, how long they stay is to be determined by medical professionals and not a judge. While those kids are in the psyche ward, they should continue to receive an education as much as possible, so that, years down the road, when they are released, they can be a contributing member of society. My goal here is not to get revenge or seek "justice". My goal is to attempt to work the problem by offering honest help to a couple of screwed up kids who have parents, school and society at large fail them. The blame doesn't rest solely with the kids. A fair portion can be laid at the feet of society too. Anyhow, that's my moosey take on it. Again, I love your commentary. Lots of thoughtful posters here today. Thanks for taking the time to leave a comment.
As kids.. they got fantasised and swayed by a third person i strongly think.. nevertheless should try them as juveniles, nothing to get destroying two more lives. PS Dont tell this to that girls parents.
Have followed this case for awhile. Not sure if its been mentioned but the victim survived from the 19 stab wounds, so there was no murder. Great topic Moose, but i don't think they can be trialled as adults. As a 12 yo, you know right from wrong yes, but consequences of your actions no. You don't understand death and the finality of it, you can't distinguish between fiction and reality. As a parent, the story is horrifying but an eye for a eye type mentality is never the answer.
Oooh the Slender Man case. Fascinating bit of news, Moose. That little girl was VERY LUCKY to have not only survived, but to heal as well as she has (on the outside). The man that found her, that was a one in thousand chance of having that timing. Very lucky girl. Imagine going to a sleepover you've looked forward to for weeks. You get to spend time with your very best friend, and you are making plans for what activities you will plan for the evening. What dolls you will play with, what board games to bring out, what snacks to eat. That best friend and another friend then lead you out into the woods. You are a little scared, a little skeptical, but you go. It's your best friend. What's the harm? Then the girls stab you 19 times after deciding which will do it. You hear the words "Go crazy". Not once, and then stop because they realize what they're doing. 19 times. This is not including earlier that day, when they planned to stab Payton in a public restroom. They argued over who was going to do the stabbings then, and it didn't work out. Still, they went through with it. And now Payton has to face them in court. These girls have both admitted to the attacks. Both say it was an offering to Slender Man, or Slender Man would have harmed their families. That will be their defense. Frame of mind, intent, etc. They still believe this, they say. Ah, so what will stop them from sacrificing someone else? 19 times. Try them as ADULTS. Sure, get them help. Sure, the parents will suffer (the parents knew nothing of this, and I'm sure they're not alone) as they probably should. But this was attempted murder with a 5-inch blade. Adult actions, adult consequences, kids.
I played GTA Moose when I was little i still do play it, I surfed the net unsupervised when I was little, and you know what? My mind was warped to the point I wanted to commit murder, children are different and will take I'm things differently it's that simple
@Moose... For sure their record shouldn't be erased. Their potential future husbands deserve to know what they might deal with. But about the "broken" part I don't know what to say...what are the chances that both of them to be broken? And we don't know which exactly Slender man story pushed them to do that? Maybe was something like "if you don't stab your friend Slander man will kill your parents". At 12 years old a kid can be influenced or scared without actually being mentally " broken".
This is a very good point, and is well stated. It also speaks to the importance of proper parenting. And yes, even though I don't know them,I'm feel as if I can throw a few rocks at the parents.
I was under the impression this was a murder case. Put these idiots into a psych ward for a couple decades and be done with it
When I was a kid, I was CONVINCED that if I stepped a crack, it would break my mother's back. I did not make plans to tear apart every piece of concrete in my wake. I just didn't step on the cracks.
Let's back up for a sec, 1 the kids knew it was wrong that's why they left her for dead because they bailed and couldn't kill her because they felt guilt mid way though, 2 they looks the character up online this was no game they claimed they thought this person was real 3 u all scream parents fault parents fault it's pRents fault fully if let's say they all do drugs don't watch their kids ever and break a bunch of laws but parents not letting them play even have remotely violent video games don't let them watch anything over pg and do everything they think they can to give them a good growing environment you still want to punish them? 4 they failed to kill a girl u slap her and her whole family in the face by her not being in prison for a long ass time also out in 6 years or so wouldn't b shocked if they got murdered in return and no master how it goes these 3 kids will never have normal lives 1 girl will have huge trust issues other 2 will have their life's destroyed by the government (and word will get around about what they did as kids I'm pretty sure when they are released as their lives will b so messed up ppl will wonder y)
I'm normally life for a life (given they didn't have a hell of a reason to take it) however to take 2 12 year olds lives is hard to do makes me rethink that. But to just let them out at 18 then watch them is stupid to say the less they are a threat still. But on that note.. Might b easier then locking them up for 40 years as when they get out.. They can't do anything... Might as well just stay in prison bc they won't b able to get a job or really do anything they will b clueless how society even works that's something that takes years to understand and u normally have help from parents (which when they are 52 I doubt will b alive)
What? You just said yourself you don't know the parents nor the lifestyle they have set for their children, so saying they deserved to be punished without even knowing the details isn't right
In a way I'm talking about my own experience. I've grew up in a communist country. Until very late most of movies I could see on TV was about World War 2 with romanian and russian army fighting alongside against germans. Naturally I had in my brain that "nazis are bad". Well... My mum's brother in law was a in the police forces (or militia how was called back then). His uniform was that GESTAPO gray. It was a while when I was very scared by my uncle. Always hidding when he was visiting us because I was thinking he is a nazi and therefore bad guy. But what if I would be more brave and one day I would stabbed him because in my eyes was a nazi? Being so little (5 or 6) at the beginning my parents tough that I'm just shy or something. But after short time they realized is something else and made me to talk to them. Then they explained to me what a police like him is doing, how is he actually a bad guy and the movies are...just movies.
Again this was a online character they had to look up. That's the least likely to fall into trap category.. Meaning they likely didn't even play violent video games but that's just speculation.