A large issue many of you are overlooking is that turtling was forced upon the parties of the Summer War Tournament due to the Auto-Join feature. Many of you are basing your ideas off of this. Auto-join FORCES turtle wars. It's that simple. I'm not sure how or why many of you can't understand that. Prior to the tournament, system wars have been dead for quite sometime. Pretty much since KaW changed the reward system of them and then put Mitrhil for sale in exchange for gold. So between that change and the Summer War Tournament, their have been very little, to no wars going on meaning you would have to go back to the days prior of the reward system being changed to find what exactly killed off system wars. I've said it a few times already, the change in reward for system wars it was killed it. KaW was full of system wars prior to this change, and rarely where any of them turtle wars. @Rooneycam, I'm extremely sadden to see this is you alt, meaning your main is probably even bigger and you think fighting from pin in a system war is the best strategy. Sorry mate, but that's not a FACT at all. There are few ways to destroy a clan that takes the fight from pin method, but forcing auto-join eliminates those abilities. Seriously, I've got hundreds of system wars under my belt. Not once have I lost one. I've faced about every tactic out there including clans taking a full on turtling approach and it didn't stop the war from looking like a pw by the time it was over. In all my time spent in the trenches I've learned that most really don't understand the strategies that can be employed into the current system. If you really think Turtling is the best method feel free to get with me in pm and we can setup a war. Your side can turtle, mine will use other methods, and we can see who wins the war. I do completely respect you saying that you're not criticizing the pin strategy; maybe someone in this thread actually gets it. @The Dark Knight, You claim fighting from pin takes very little skill. For one player to fight from pin, you are correct it takes very little skill and planning. But when you are talking about a whole clan fighting from pin, you are dead wrong. That takes more skill, planning, and coordinating than any other approach you can take going into a system war. As I told Os-Macabre, What LR did against ZAFT Destiny in the finals took more planning, organizing, and coordination than any war you've even been a part of. That is a FACT. If your understanding of taking a Turtle approach in a system war is that of "keep you troops below 20%", you are missing the big picture. There are so many more aspects than just keeping your troops pinned. LR did what most clans fail to do, and they covered all those aspect quite well and it managed to get them a shiny Champion Ring. Maybe it's you that didn't read what KaW wrote. KaW plainly states that you will be able to attack an opponent all the down to 0 troops. Meaning that a hansel can no long can take their troops below the "pin" line and not be a target. Say your hansel has 15% troops, guess what...in this new system I can still attack you until I bring you to 0 troops, at which case you are now pinned until you reach 25% troops again, and then guess what. I can do it again, and again, and again, every time, taking away plunder from your side. You are looking at it the wrong way mate. KaW isn't changing the mechs of the game. Be it in the new system or the one currently in use, A clan must work together to pin a single target. This wouldn't be a new tactic like you claim, sorry. Defenders have always had the upper hand, and it's always taken multiple people to pin them if you are not using xstals. That's nothing new. What is new is that fact that if you do work together as a team on pinning a player, those that did the pinning are now at a much higher risk of becoming a liability due to the fact that they will all be much lower troop and spy levels and now the other side can easily pin them. Hence my SeeSaw effect I spoke of in earlier post. Eventually everyone will be 0'd from trying to 0 out the other side and now you're stuck in a turtle war yet again. No where does KaW state that the new system for system war will only apply to the weekly wars that KaW will host. They will apply to all wars, even those outside of the 1 weekly war setup by KaW. And even then, they say that they will try to match the clans as closely as possible but can guarantee you anything. This change applies to the all system wars mate, not just the weekend wars. You're a just taking things in context and not thinking outside of the quadrilateral parallelogram. Yes, this is what you do when you disagree with something. The war system in play is not a broken system. This very system use to thrive, and it was like that until KaW made changes to the reward payout. The current system doesn't need to be fixed, therefore I have nothing to propose to change it. What needs to be addressed is the reward given for winning a system war. As I suggested to ATA, release Estoc's Edge into the current system and what them come back to live and thrive yet again. Nobody has knocked or said that the current system for wars is broken or needs to be replaced. However once ATA changed the reward payout for the current system in play, everyone spoke out about it and said they wouldn't war anymore because the reward just wasn't worth it. Nobody said, I'm not warring any more because 48 hour wars are too long or people are fighting form pin, I'm not warring anymore, ect ect. Everyone quite warring simply because the reward was not longer worth it. Mate please tell me where I say any different? Long before I ever saw your name around KaW, I have spoken out for the players of KaW and tried to make this game as enjoyable as possible. One of those things I pushed for, extremely hard , was giving the players the option to choose how long their wars are. I do believe I pushed for 6, 8, 12, 24,and 48 hour war options. KaW has given us 12, 24, and 48 hour options so far, and maybe in time they will add 6 and 8 hour options. But at least they did give the players the options, even if not all the ones requested, it's a damn good start. I'm not quite sure why you would even address something like this towards me. Again it just seems you are throwing words around looking for an argument. I'm not saying that's the case, but you should know the stance of the people you address instead of making assumptions. Again something else I have always supported. All games must evolve in time in order to stay interesting and on par with their player base. You mention eb warriors...guess what, that's part of the evolution of KaW. KaW is a not even close to being the same game it was when I first started playing. I've always supported the games evolution, hell my clan name is based on evolutionary theories largely because our ability to adapt to the changes KaW has made. I have also always spoke out against updates that will worsen the game and given ample amount of support as to why the will not improve the game. I've already stated all KaW has to do is add Estoc's Edge to the current system and war will come back 10 fold. That's all that needs to happen, nothing more, nothing less. For the longest of times, people thought the world was flat. Just because everyone thinks something doesn't me it's rights. Luckily a man name Eratosthenes came along and spoke out against what everyone thought to be. Thankfully, he had more knowledge on the matter than the sum of all the people that supported the earth being flat and was able to provide enough evidence for everyone to eventually come to understand that the earth is in fact round....Fear of change lol? Mate it's just a game, nothing to fear. If you're going to put quotations around something I supposedly said, make sure you properly quote me. No were in any of my post do I ever say the word genius, or anything remotely close to what you said. I can only assume you're one of the many iProphet haters, Being that you claim you use to look forward to system wars, I can understand why you are one; probably ended up against me in one and still want to hold grudges over your defeat. Yeah I know, KaW is serious enough to hold grudges this long over a make believe war. You aren't a smart man, you got that part right. Nothing you said makes sense. What makes even less sense is that your account is not even a year old and that's about how long system wars have been dead. Unless you're just posting with your alt to hide your main because it would be too apparently that you have some in game grudge to hold. One last thing, If you use to look forward to system wars, what was the sudden change in heart? Something must have happened to them in order for your interest in them to go away. Please share, because the mechs of the war system haven't changed, the only thing that has is the way in which it rewards players. It's hard to understand what you're talking about with the 40% war tax being that one, it doesn't make sense, and two, being that you're unable to use words that aren't bypassed to get your point across. But from what I can make out of it, you seem to think it's a minor thing. So again I urge you to share, with informative input, why you suddenly lost interest in a system that you claim to be once so interested in, especially since nothing in the system has changed minus the way in which it rewards players. - iProphet
lol again with the fear word... Mate please point out to us where KaW says that they will be completely reworking how system wars work but only be using it for the weekly wars they host. They clearly state that they want to change the system as a whole. That's exactly how it reads. If I'm wrong, please show me.
Hey Sticky, From everything I've read from KaW, they haven't seen anything about making auto-join a part of the new system. Maybe I skipped over that if they did somewhere. But my understanding from what I read is that they aren't making it mandatory. As I've already stated and gave supporting reasons for, I'm very much against auto-join features. I would support you idea over an auto-join at start, but that's about the only case i would support it. Reason being, My current clan has 94 members, chances are not all of them will be able to take part in a war due. KaW is an international game with players from all over the world, many of who have jobs and other lively duties. It's almost impossible to set a time when all members of a clan can war together. I don't see why the members who can't war do to real life obligations should be forced to leave their clan so they aren't automatically joined into a war. It's very big brotherish. The spell thing might work, but it would be rather complex to put into play. If ATA decided to add auto-join to the new system perhaps they could give players an option that lets them opt out of the war without leaving clan. Something that would prevent the auto-join for taking effect on the player, but also prevent the player from being able to join the war. That's the best I got in regards to auto-join. I haven't put too much thought into since i didn't read anywhere KaW saying it was something they were planning on adding to the system. If it is, I'll actually put some time into thinking about it and see what ideas come of it. - iProphet
@Sticky, And I guess thats the answer huh..lol. Yeah I'm also totally against Auto-join features. I've stated my reasoning in previous post. Your idea of auto-join is much better than having an auto-join at start but I'm still against the idea of Auto-Join. I'll put some thought into this and give you a better explained reason why auto-join is bad for wars and maybe some ideas as to how KaW could go around using Auto-Join or use it more effectively. Thanks for point that out, I didn't catch that post from KaW. - iProphet
Hey Proph, no they haven't said it would be applicable to all system wars, just the organised weekly wars/events they have planned so my thoughts were aimed more at that. I do like what you suggest about members being able to stay in the clan during war , just not be active in it, good for close clans and can't be hard to implement , I think quite a lot would jump out for an EB anyway though (with T5 out etc) . I was raised on wars being fought mostly from pin , get out of pin where you can and regen if possible, that was of course before they upped the war tax.. Terrible idea, and yes it did kill the majority of wars (hand in hand with eb's coming out) . When I first grew we made money from volleys, hitting inactives etc, and of course war... You could actually make gold to a certain extent in war then (if you won) and the thrill of just winning by a small margin after 48 hours was a buzz indeed! The hike in tax really spazzed that. I could never understand why they didn't just find another way to stop plunder wars. Like you have said , make wars rewarding and people will war. I'll be honest and admit turtle wars are dull , and that's the reason I hope this may change things up a bit, but tbh it could just mean everyone auto joins at the start,smacks each other to zero (except a few accounts who stay above) everyone waits till "hibernation" ends at 25% then rinse and repeat, kind of turtle wars but without the ability to hit whilst in your safe zone lol, but I guess it needs to be tested to truly get a feel. I still think the spell idea would be excellent, especially of there is no change to auto join in organised events, a "safe mode" spell that lasts say 4 hours in any 12 would enable the timezones to balance a little better, it can be your own way to join when you want to, or even the majority of the clan could cast for the last 4 hours (with a nice lead) and sail to victory. One thing for sure , it would lend itself to some nice tactics. I don't know how hard it is to implement but I'm positive I read the devs post early on on the thread that they liked the idea and would look into its possibility (it was suggested by someone else, not I) but as of yet they haven't commented further. Osw should not change however, it is fine as it is, you take your Knocks and enjoy the tax free gold, imagine if system wars were tax free, and rewarded just a bounty of inferno/aqua/mithril, maybe an item. I'd sure war more often... I love the game, and I'm glad players do get some input into what they want, from the LB to the noobs (however daft some suggestions are lol)
I've managed to get a little further past my normal point on nodding off while trying to read through all these post and found this. It does seem the intent for now is to only use this system for the weekly wars. That doesn't mean it won't take over the old war system completely later though. I'm not sure I understand the point in having two different systems for war to be based on, or how that can be overall healthy for the community. Both systems require a much different approach and they would counter each other out making one unused. Which would likely be the current system war, since the reward for it is total garbage. This update is only going to encourage wars because of Estoc's Edge. So outside of the one war a week you compete in to try and win this, I really don't see this doing anything for system wars as whole. People aren't going to be warring because they want to war, they will be doing so reward. Again making another aspect of this game useless. If you really want to improve the war aspect of your game, why not completely revamp the war system so that it appeals to more players. All you doing here is adding a different war system that will only apply in weekly war and quarterly tournaments and will only draw players into them based on the reward. Same thing could be done if you just fixed the rewards for the old system. Putting this system to use in the quarterly tournaments is an even worse idea. As much as you may not realize it now, under the proposed plan, stats mean everything and strategy means very little. Whoever has the largest clan in the tournament system has the largest chance of winning the tournament under this type of system. Clans like the current champs wouldn't have a chance to prove their warring abilities in this kind of war. I've also suggested this before, why are item drops in Ebs? Ebs already have a purpose, gold. All players have to eb in order to make the proper amounts of gold to stay up with the never ending growth of this game. If the items were dropped via war rewards it would give players a reason to do system war again as well as make the items a little more rare so that not everyone out there has them. Once we all have the items they render themselves useless. They should be a little harder to obtain than just wacking a pve system that requires no skill whatsoever. @Sticky, I see a lot of problems by using a spell to make a player dtw for x amount of time. First being how long is x amount of time? Second being how many times can a player use this spell? Thirdly, why is a player having to spend mithril to step away from a war? or what if the player doesn't have the mithril to cast the spell? Many young players would be excluded from this as they don't have leveled castles and therefore can't use mithril yet. Is it right for them not to granted the same ability simply because of their size? This is all just off the top of my head, I'm sure they are ways around most of what I said, but figuring out how to best incorporate them will be the true task. - iProphet
I've now actually lost the will to keep reading this thread. iProphet the problem with your view is that you assume it to be fact rather than your view. The thread is about opinions. You are entitled to your own opinion as are others. KaW will decide. Last time I checked it was a benevolent dictatorship rather than a democracy. I won't be back on this thread I can't even bring myself to read it now. @kaw I'm in for beta test if you have a spot. Thanks.
Hmmm , well I guess any ideas have to be addressed lol. Maybe the spell won't cost anything , instead being a tool granted to all participants for free, one time use only in war duration, length to suit the war duration ( 4 hours out of 12 just an example) . I guess I'm just taking an idea I saw posted and seeing how it could be implemented, if it is auto join as standard then that spell would be a way to control your own entry into the war (if you needed or wanted to) . The spell and indeed delayed auto join would help different timezones also. I certainly wouldn't want to alienate any players without mithril etc, so maybe the best way would to have it as an organised event spell only. I guess as these changes are tried and tested we will all just have to give our honest thoughts and settle on the best system we can get, it should still be fun to take part in any testing so good luck to those that have the opportunity : )
I love it! I still have 1 question (of course lol) If a clan wins a war and gets Estoc Edge, what happens when ALOT of ppl want to get in on the Edge? Say clan A wins a war and gets Estoc edge, and 40% more ppl join their clan for the Estoc edge. Would they lose Estoc edge? I only ask this because it wouldn't be fair to the clan who got Estoc's Edge, the ppl that want in on it would cancel it out because to many ppl joined.
@ iprophet , why are u being a cry baby? It's just a game and everything changes at some stage . There are many alternations in everything so now a game (KAW) wants to change it's war system so what's your problem ? Just leave the game if you don't want to play . Now it's time to plan the new strategies for this new war system instead of living in past
I don't get it: so much buzz, when an easy way out is at hand - just pull out auto-join from this changes, and everyone shall be happy!
Wow I have to concede I did indeed up until today think the world was flat. Obviously some fear change and refuse to accept that others other than themselves have any comprehension of a game. After all this is the most complex game ever to exist and it's impossible for anyone including the developers to understand the dynamics of the game or what the other players may want other than of course a certain prophet. Using the current system of turtle wars when have I ever taken anything away from last rights and their win against zaft?? Last time I checked I have never mentioned either clan? But of course you know better than any other player here. The majority obviously do not desire change have not contacted ata in one form or other and do not support any or all of these changes. Again nice eloquent argument that does little other than try and sound clever whilst offering no constructive support to the game or players here or in kaw. I think I'll allow the players to have their say rather than have this thread about one player trolling every player that disagrees with him. As this game evolves and becomes more active for wars I'll enjoy the wars. Time will tell who is right you or devs? In the need for change. I personally think the devs have a more accurate feel for what the gamers are asking for. And yes in this rare instance I commend them and all the players that offer constructive support to this thread and game. Nice to see you agree on some points such as shorter war options. I haven't seen auto join stated and do not agree with such a feature. I also do not agree with the idea of any war game where killing or friendly fire on your own troops is considered a good tactic. That is ludicrous and I feel sorry for you that on this ever so flat world you feel this is the most desirable war tactic. We may as well all just go back to 2000 troops and auto DTW after 1 hit in or out if that's the way you want to play. Oh and 0 troops. Try reading the yellow writing page one. A player will need to have 0 troops and 0 spies as written by devs. Before they are pinned and DTW though the exact mechanics have yet to be confirmed. Estoc on players please not the clan devs. Last point. So to leave this for other players and hopefully less trolling this is my last post on this forum in the hope that more ideas progress and we get a true opinion of what players would like to see in the future of wars for kaw. Best wishes to you all. And good luck to everyone in these new and exciting times.
So if a clan can't war with more than say 65-70 members due to time zone sleeping issues, this means when they add the extra members and want to put the roster at 100 to do difficult EB's, they will lose the drop bonus for the best EB's. Needs some work Devs.
@The Dark Knight iProphet never said pinning own side in a war was the best, or the one and only tactic. He's not saying that every single war you are going to need to do it. In fact, I'm sure he agrees that it's a pain, and troops are better used on the opponents side. The fact remains though that it IS a valuable tactic that should be used in SOME situations. Taking that out would be detrimental.
Wait yellow devs come on killing me also I like it all but the 1 crystal usage if ppl don't like it tough tell them to buy some and use them, isn't that what you want devs more money to add for stupid ebs and it's item drops. So you guys gone soft seriously only 12 hour wars we should have 24-48 it makes other clans have a chance to survive, unless it is my clan. but all in all the new war thing nice bout time u realize that it should be a war game between clans and not eb.