I Think The New War Changes Are Good But I believe That Estoc's edge should be giving to the player and they can do what they want with it. I Want To Test These Wars
Gamehedge - I respect your opinions but I must ask the same as I did of luthor, when is the last time you or your clan took part in a system war? Going even deeper, my roots throughout kaw stem through House D'urden. It's where I learned and mastered the art of fighting from pin. Maybe it's your clans way of approaching war tactics that make them boring for you. Why are current system war not fun? You say I'm the minority, but outside this thread filled with noobs and butt kissers, all the players I've spoken with(players that use to war weekly) about this all agree with me. There's just no reason to war anymore as the reward isn't worth the cost and efforts. What's the talk of mercing? I don't recall saying anything about mercs. It sounds like you are blaming system war for the reason clan loyalty has become tainted. But let's get real. Plunder wars and eb are what kill clan loyalty. Not players mercing into a war. Regarding the upcoming changes to the war system, the reward would only apply to the weekly war you take place in. Not any others. They already have an idea to help prevent those wars from being merc influenced. Under the proposed plan, you will have two clans more or less waking away at each other in a race to pull the most plunder. It will by like the old pwar days minus no osfs and the other side hits back. Strategy for this type of war is so extremely limited. If you believe different please enlighten me to what it is I don't see. Because all I see is you disagreeing with me stating facts of the game with no support behind it minus this will be more fun. Which isn't even a strong argument as you don't even know what the update will do for system wars in the long run. I, more than anyone, want to see system wars make a come back but this system isn't going to do that. My prediction if it rolls as is; first couple of weeks everyone jumps into wars and then realizes its like wak-a-mole and they die off just as quick as they were hyped up. -iProphet
Os-Macabre, You think turtling takes no skill whatsoever and isn't a valid tactic? Are you discrediting what LR just did against ZAFT Destiny as a totally fluke and they got lucky? ZAFT's 23rd member in clan was larger than LR's 7th. Please tell all of us under what circumstances LR could have went toe to toe with ZAFT besides going the turtle route? And then for you to say it takes no skill, I find that to be disgraceful Your clan is one of the main reasons turtling is such a tried and true method. Remember back about a year ago, when OS was a mean, green, warring machine. I'd say i met up with OS members easily twice a week to merc into a war, never once losing because the sheer overwhelming power we would bring with us. After my good friend yoongy left OS, I no longer felt the need to merc into wars with OS. But I certainly felt the need to still merc. So I started mercing against OS with my little rag tag team from Forty Six and Two, and ya know what....We never lost. Even though we would be going up against the might of OS, who had multiple LB players in it, our tactics still proved to work better and we walked away with the victory...every time. Fact is, there are very few clans that can go toe to toe with a clan that stacked with the lb players. Not to mention, the ones not LB are rather large themselves. Turtling is a vital role for these match ups. I'm still in awe you think there's no skill to turtle war. It's a slap in the face to what LR pulled off to win the summer war(which trust me, took way more planning and coordination than any war OS has ever taken part in). @The Dark Knight, I read through some of your earlier post in this thread, but the one you addressed to me, I simply couldn't make it through. You started bringing up matters of which I didn't even speak of and it makes no sense why you would address those concerns to me unless you're just grasping for something to try and argue about. Based on your other post, and one addressed towards me, I truly don't think you are the kaw master you think you are. Sorry mate, but a lot of what you say has no backing and is just you throwing words around. I did make it to your part about the who cares if war pays crap, if we win we get our Estoc's Edge and can make up for the lost time/money the following week bit. Let me point something out to you. Not every war is going to give you Estoc's Edge, Only one war a week will. So what about all the other wars in between the ATA setup Weekly Wars? This system doesn't encourage players to take part in war because it's fun, more strategic, or any other reasons you or anyone else wants to throw out there. This new system is only going to draw people into war because of the reward of Estoc's Edges. That's a FACT! I challenge ATA to prove me wrong on this matter. Figure out how you want to work Estoc's Edge( I agree with the thinking of 'giving it to the player(s) that are in the war and not the clans' , otherwise it will be way to easy to exploit) and introduce it into your current war system. Watch what happens. Anyone wanna bet me that the current war system wouldn't take off like never before and the pulse of system wars would thrive throughout KaW has it did prior to the change in how wars rewarded players? I've got some pretty hefty accounts to wager...any takers at all? @ KaW, I really do challenge you on what I stated above. Sticking with out "car analogies", that's great you want to add a new engine thats going to give it 100 more HP. But what you fail to understand is that Its not about how much HP the engine produces, it's about how much of that HP gets to the wheels. Again, I don't mean to sound or be disrespectful with my posting, but I honestly do doubt the understanding you have of your own game play. From the many failed updates to us beta testers beating the devs in a system war(how the hell do the makers of the game not beat the players!?), you often show you work hard to improve and add to the game, but you also show a lack of understanding of it's game play. I think it's great you are taking feedback from players on this upcoming update, but just because someone downloaded kaw from itunes doesn't mean they will be giving you good solid feedback. We both know that a majority of the post here are things that will never come into effect, due to most people not truly understanding the game itself and what can be done with a game of this sorts. I believe the best thing you can do for this update is really look at the pros vs the cons. I've collected my thoughts one this issue since you posted this, and I have come up with many pros, but I have far more cons. Really reflect on what changing the current war system in play with the one you propose will change as far as game play goes. Not just from a developers pov, but actually break down all the aspects of game play you have in this game and see how much they will change with the proposed system. Also think about what type of strategies this new system can bring to war. And don't just mindlessly think of them, test them out and see how realistic they are. And last but not least.....You've been putting in some serious hours lately ATA, tons of updates rolling out across all platforms...How about we finally get a KWT(KaW World TIme). It's so simple to do, literally an ape could code it. Just pick a spot somewhere in WC to add a little box with KWT and give your community a standard time in which they can base everything off of. That little change would go farther than any update I can thinking of in recent times. so pleeeeaaaassssseeeeeeeee, I'm tried of begging for it =P - iProphet
I agree with most of what Dark Knight says. It's a good post. Hiding for 24 hours under pin is dullsville for both sides. Credit to LR who executed it so well but it is not exactly fun. Fun is a bloodbath. New system could be that and will require strategy, a new strategy, something that some will figure out more quickly than others and gain an advantage. If it doesn't work then it would need to be tweaked. Personally I have fought many wars from pin and it's good as long as there is plunder there. When you get to the end of a war and there are less than a couple of hundred hits it loses some of the fun. Devs you have reacted really quickly to some proposed changes and ignored others .... Sometimes the minority is most vocal ........ A change could be very exciting. I'll volunteer to be in test wars
IProphet has a point. Many points actually. The 40% tax killed System Wars. Giving Mithril in exchange for using pots. Lol. Rather do EBs to get the gold to buy Mithril. Rather build up myself by doing gold generating EBs, then go out n get items when they 1st come out. Why? Higher drop rate. Wanna bet the new system has a slow take off rate. That sooner or later, people will walk away from it. And give up wars. The incentives unfortunately do not weigh in as much as Gold production.
... Point and Case!!!!! Seriously dude, you don't like fighting systems war from pinned? This coming from a hansel. :lol: You have no option but to fight from pin. If you don't like it, I highly recommend a build change mate. And you are aware that under this proposed system, you will never have any business in a system war again. No hansel will unless they have an insane amount of attack and def bfa...talking lb status. You won't be able to pin your troops therefore you will be the easiest target for the other side to 0 out. In this propose system, you become completely obsolete in a system war. I dare say I've fought more system wars than anyone else in this thread. Hundreds of them, and out of all those wars, I'd say maybe 20% of them have been a complete turtle war like what was present in the Summer War Tournament. There's only a handful of reason for an all out turtle style war; Auto Join is a damn fine reason for one. The only other time a turtle tactic is better is when the opposing side is much, much stronger than yours. If you're not a turtle war fan, then blame your leadership for picking wars with clans that are much stronger than what you can go toe to toe with to have your little Blood Bath. If you're having to turtle against clans that are around the same size as yours, you should rethink your methods of war. However you do say something I like, and that's the minority is most vocal. If you look through this thread, you will see that the majority of posters are in support of this change, meaning they speak the most and are the minority. Now this can also apply in a different way in which I would be the minority because I post extremely long post that actually have substance and factual evidence that nobody is able to protest against. Look through this thread, how many of the people in here are serious KaW warriors? Most of your serious players stay out of the forums. They're too busy playing KaW to worry about mindless rabble. As I've stated before, all the players I've talked to agree with my thinking on this update, and these are players that truly war in game, not on the forums. - iProphet
Another quick note. If I come off a bit harsh, I do apologize. Most of KaW knows the real reason ATA had to get a new server recently was because the old one couldn't support my ego. I'm doing my best to keep it in check in this thread. I've always been one to speak out against updates for KaW that will worsen the game. I passionately spoke out against the increase of war tax to 40%. I knew it would kill system wars. And though very few supported me, I stayed true to it. Sadly, that's exactly what happened. Until the reward system was changed there were wars all over KaW. My wall stayed filled with post of people asking me to come and merc, that's not happen in ages. They didn't die off over night though. I spoke out even more passionately against selling mithril for gold both when ATA decided to sell it and even prior to mithrils released into KaW. Once they offered mithril in exchange for gold, they took away the only draw left to compete in a system war. That was the final nail in the coffin for system wars. I enjoy system wars more than any other aspect of game. I wouldn't speak out against an update that I truly though would encourage people to partake in system wars. @ KaW Something else for you to ponder on a bit. Will the Weekly War you host for the Estoc's Edge reward have an auto-join feature? I am 100% against auto-join as it takes away one of the most important aspects of war, how a clan enters battle, as well as numerous other reasons(splits clans if not all can war, if someone can't be active at the first hour but they can for the majority of the war, they stand a good chance at being the reason their side loses, instead of being an important asset for the victory, ect. ect.). The reason I ask is because, lets say you decide to change how you give the reward out and it goes to the players that take part in the war, not the clan. What is to stop players from joining at the last second of a war to gain the bonus? Lock the roster maybe but even then you would have to implement the auto-join feature in order to make sure none wait till the last second to join. But on the same note, say you don't force us to auto-join the war, there are many wars i've been in where it was won in the last hour by people who joined with a majority of the war already over. Do you fault them and not give them the reward because of a late join, even though it was their late join that caused their side to get the victory? Little details like this are what really concern me about the reward. It just seems very exploitable. - iProphet
iProphet this is not my main. I have an attack build for war too. I have enjoyed fighting pin wars, however, it has now got to the point where clans in the Summer Wars last rounds were losing less than say even 10 battles an hour (for the whole clan). Look at final. Last Rights lost under 20 battles I think for the whole war. That's 24 hours of "Defender too Weak". I am not criticising the current war system or the pin strategy. What I am suggesting is that pin has now got to a level where the only fun is winning. Taking part is a chore. Before everyone picked up on the fact that pin was the best way to ensure a victory wars were less predictable and they were fun. There was in my opinion more teamwork and it was fun. I do think there are flaws in what KaW seems to want to implement but if it's wrong well ..... that could actually be fun too. Finding out mechanics of new war system and deciding strategy is part I'm actually looking forward too. If current war system remains it means only the most dedicated of players will participate in war tourney. More casual players are left out. Not everyone wants to forego a nights sleep for KaW.
@ I prophet First off I never professed to be a kaw master. But I am sick to death of DTW. And having seen enough to convince me it destroys the fun of wars I don't see the point to pinning yourself. Fighting from pin takes very little skill. My first war I did that very effectively and it could not really be considered hard to do. No sleep no quit. No place for hansels. Obviously you did not read the devs response that 0 troops meant 0 attack or spy troops as such spies pinning will be very effective in wars. As regard to no new tactics if full troops for attack builds and spies working in a co-ordinated team effort to pin opponents pref as they enter the war and time their regen and re-entry to the war after being 0'd requires no skill then what does. Pinning an active player in war requires more skill than pinning someone the second they regen from pin. Which easily keeps the bigger builds out of war whilst hitting the smaller builds for plunder. In your view bigger clans will destroy smaller clans. The devs have already said they will try to match clans as evenly as possible. This is weekly wars not a tournament. Yes there are changes and I respect your experience even if you don't respect other players and their views. But thus far you have offered arguments to thus far criticise the proposed changes that are designed to help progress the game and war system. Yet I have not seen any constructive proposals from yourself that would help advance this topic forward. If you want self pin wars don't do the weekly tournament. As for players wanting more options what is wrong with that. Variety particularly to war duration will help others with real world commitments to have a more varied experience in kaw. Everyone jumping on the band wagon first few weeks. Great hopefully many will enjoy this new experience and continue to desire to war. If not then its worth a try and more dedicated players will continue to war in the tournaments etc. I honestly believe 6 hour wars or shorter would encourage a significant amount of players who otherwise wouldn't to war. More wars more experience more enjoyment more wars. Where is the downside. If there are exploits I'm sure they can be addressed. Random line ups weekly will help make this more exciting. As for all war games I play everyone evolves and changes it keeps it interesting and fun and I for one am glad ata are giving us a chance to progress the war options rather than all being eb heroes. Thus far the majority of players in this forum seem to support these changes and yourself and a couple of others fear the changes. If you can propose some changes rather than just criticise kaw for their suggestions please let's hear them.
A little off topic here, but still related to war tactics. I think u devs missed a treat with T5. I think the introduction of Misc buildings would have made people really think about their builds. For example builds that have no troops or spys but: •Increase plunder •decrease regen time •reduce troop loss •enhance pot strength Just a few quick examples where instead of trying to become the biggest build, it opens up many new build types like kaw of old. War would become a very different and more exciting place to be, and players would become more unique in design, and modelled on a players tactics. Pipe dream? Or something people would like to see?
good ideas would like to see first two and similar. Think it was moose who had similar ideas. New builds and mixture of effects would certainly boost strategy. Faster regen would be my favourite. Maybe gold mine but that would open every player up to hits. Could be fun or not ??
@ iprophet , perhaps you could lend some weight to my suggestion that the auto join feature only be enforced part way into the war , allowing for tactical joining but ensuring all must take part. This may help? Or indeed support the idea of a spell to render you "safe" ( DTW to attacks etc) for a limited period , could cast at any point during war including the start , that could also be used strategically? Not sure on your thoughts regarding these ideas. Personally I've fought in wars for the past 2 years (almost) so I remember how they were pre PW days. I'm all for change in a game, it keeps it fresh. But also resect long standing players thoughts such as yourself. Just hope any changes improve things and not harm things.
@Dark Knight and all other people who disagree with iProphet I don't really think that any of u understand what iProphet is really talking about... He's talking about what's better for ALL system wars. Not just the specific system wars that the dev's are going to be holding weekly. Among many others, one of his strong points was the fact that there will be virtually no system wars outside of these scheduled weekend events.
I agree with this post although I did not agree much on the restriction from hitting our clan members. Does that mean that we must sit for 12hours?
Actually iProphet had a good idea! KWT = KaW world time = a clock for good reference to time in here! That would help a lot in making, let's say, shorter wars, isn't it? 6-12h, a reference to a constant is something to look forward! And a good idea also with variety of buildings! Fast regeneration, increase plunder! But I fear that this is not possible, cause it shall introduce a lot of variable to consider in a complex equation! Is it possible - @kaw?
Roll out these changes kaw. Can't wait to try out this new system, looking forward to sw like I used to. I tried reading prophets rant but got lost at the “ it takes a genius trained by geniuses to turtle ” part. And as for rewards someone said 40% war tax bla bla bla... A few hits/steals for 24 hrs ( 12 hrs for that matter ) = **** all. Now I'm not a smart man but 40% on **** all = **** all. And I'm pretty sure these rules only apply to dev match up wars, so... problem?
@ penguin. That's my point devs are changing the weekly wars. Where is the issue the rest of system wars as far as we know are not touched so there is no drama here just a new option. So iphrophet has nothing to fear. As for system wars. What system wars now?? At least this new system will potentially have much greater rewards. And make and help players enjoy the war experience. Enjoy the extra options try them and see if they work or not. Can't hurt to try can it. Devs aren't holding a gun to people's heads to sign up for these wars.