Hey, if they are trying to collect statistics on how many times a day a guy wacks it, that's their prerogative. I'm over here in America where I only need to worry about clearing my history before someone comes over
It's fascinating seeing both sides of this debate. It's so amazing how foreign each respective perspective is to the other side. Brits wonder why Americans care so much about privacy while Americans wonder why the Brits are so laxed about their privacy. To help Brits understand why privacy is important, we can point to one concrete example. Around 2012, the American federal government's tax collection agency, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) used the browsing data of conservative political action committees to intentionally target them for costly audits. There are also numerous examples of the FBI investigating lawful protesters and targeting them as "terror suspects." The government learned who these people were by illegally monitoring their internet browsing habits. The spy power of the government is used to suppress dissent through forceful investigations and costly audits and litigation. They're basically using the system to oppress dissent by dragging them through courts and draining their financial resources, which accomplishes the same effect of forceful oppression, albeit with less visible/controversial means. So, when they tell you that they need to read your email and monitor your browsing to protect you from the "bad guys," what they really mean is that they need your tax dollars and web browsing history to protect themselves from you. Hope this helps.
@imitation They need your tax dollars - everyone should pay tax, it's the law. If people are avoiding it and they catch them, bonzer! The point about activists - the difference between a legitimate activist and a criminal is very fine in some cases. For example Caroline Lucas, leader of the Green Party who was arrested for illegal protests on fracking (this is not a bypass). Whilst protest is a necessary evil in my opinion, if there is a chance or a sign however small, that someone may be plotting a murder or terrorism etc it needs to be investigated fully, to prevent the cases when it does occur. I'm perfectly happy getting called into a police station for a questioning once or twice in my life, even if I've done absolutely nothing wrong. It would actually put my mind at rest that the system is actually investigating things! Also, what exactly is an audit. I've heard the term on law and order but think it's a USA term and can't put my finger on it.
He was talking about using private information to specifically target a certain group of people as a means to increase their own political advancement. They were selectively targeting people from a different political party. Taxes laws are very complicated here in the US. You can be 100% by the book but still be audited. Edit: An audit is basically having your entire financial history reviewed.
TERRIBLE bill. This is a massive violation of personal privacy. Governments or corrupt officials could hold the power to blackmail people. It could be used to nitpick embarrassing information about political opponents or organizations. How much crime will this actually prevent? It's unlikely for it to prevent any.
If anything, this will simply create a black market for instruments used to block the government from spying. Millions of dollars will be wasted trying to stop the trade of these devices, and on imprisoning people who use and sell those devices.
@eggsy, Why are you talking up the benefits of paying taxes? How does that relate to this discussion? "Protest is a necessary evil."? What kind of warped, liberal, brainwashed, mouth-breathing, incompetent, ignorant embicile are you? Every, single right you have was won at the hands of protest and dissent. Why do you think governments use the term "terrorist?" It's for the exact same reason they called the native Americans "savages." "Terrorist" is a shock word that governments use to lend legitimacy to their own agendas while discrediting any force that tries to oppose them. People who go to protests are routinely photographed, documented, and investigated. They're assumed guilty and placed on terror watch lists. The government will take any action necessary and use any tool at its disposal to silence opposition, including labeling lawful protestors as "terrorists." It's the whole agenda behind unconstitutional legislation, like the PATRIOT act. If they can find a reason to label you a "terrorist," you basically get no rights. You get no fair trial. You get no right to life, even, as seen by the illegal drone assassination of Anwar Al-Awlaki, an American citizen who was blown up in Yemen without a trial or even an attempt to extradite him to stand trial here in the U.S. I already know you. I know how you're going to respond. This post isn't even intended for you, eggsy, because I know you're too numb-skilled to ever believe that our governments would ever harm an innocent civilian. This message is a news flash for everyone else reading it. Yes, your government is watching you. As long as you always agree with and support every government policy, your government most likely not target you. The moment you start thinking outside the box and demanding your rights, expect to be targeted, even if you and everyone you know has zero intention of committing any crime. By the way, an audit is an inspection of the documentation supporting a tax filing. In the U.S., not every tax return is checked by the IRS. When they do check, the person or organization being inspected is required to provide documentation proving every claim in the tax filing. If the documentation can't be found, the penalties can be very steep and even include jail time. They're supposed to do random inspections periodically. But in 2012, the IRS deliberately targeted conservative organizations to support the election of the democratic presidential candidate - Barak Obama. Here's a list of other notable IRS politically motivated investigations. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... troversies
Hey, protest is embraced by liberals where I'm from (Canada). Anti-protest laws are seen as oppressive and are generally only supported by Conservatives. You can't just find a stupid idea and call it liberal because you disagree with it.
It's not surprising they would announce this. It is my understanding they want to deter their citizens from consuming alternative narratives outside of what is deemed acceptable by the UK government. I have also heard voiced concern over UK citizens sounding like their American counterparts. Using the same lingo, and arguments. The immigration crisis in Germany has right wing groups threatening civil war as well. So anyone looking into that will probably come under surveillance scrutiny. It's also not surprising I was recently banned by certain UK news agencies. 0.o I didn't do. The more control they projected shows the every growing fear in the powers of government. This is chatter information and nothing solid so take it with a grain of salt. It's governmental powers waging information control war on their citizens IMO. Yes all the wacky stuff UK peeps consume from their own nation is acceptable. It is controlled. Outside stuff is what they are looking for, along with external influence coming from independent individuals inside of the UK. Enjoy your freedom.
This news isn't even the worst part about the situation. The biggest threat to sovereignty and Liberty is the globalization of government. Spy agencies around the world are sharing "intelligence." Which, if you've read The Drone Papers, you'd know what "intelligence" really is - targeted killing based on loosely connected device data transmissions. There's no guilt proven, no trial, and rarely are their assassination targets identified or recovered. It used to be that if you were unhappy with your country, you could simply immigrate to a new one and start over in a new home. Now, Now there's nowhere left to go. We're past conspiracy theories now, folks. This stuff is happening right now in front of us every day. Governments around the globe are coming together forming illegal trade agreements to cripple the middle class. They're laying the groundwork for a centralized global government with legislation like CISA and illegal trade agreements like the TPP and NAFTA. In 20 years, we will look around and wonder how we got there. If KaW is still around, you can open this thread and read this post from fake cheese.
I don't know about all this other stuff. I just wrote what I have heard and seen the past week. It's not that fantastical.
People will cry obviously about getting no privacy all that crap I think its a great idea might catch more criminals.
1. How are the trade agreements illegal? 2. Have you seen the process needed by authorities to gain access to the data that will be held by ISPs (not held by the government) Stop spouting all the crap about control, fear mongering isn't going to change anything. This isn't going to change the world, it's not illegal as long as the processes to procure the data are followed properly. To all you Americans, no, we do not have guns to protect us, however we don't need them. Our government makes some really terrible decisions most of the time, but they're not going to start oppressing us. TLR - stop spouting crap without looking at things
1. Because they supercede the Constitution. 2. No. Not sure if sharing facts is "fear mongering." But, ermmmmm.... okay, I guess? :?
Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise this thread had anything at all to do with the USA constitution.. Oh wait, it doesn't. There was absolutely zero point bringing that up. You have a problem with it? That's great, it's your problem. If it interferes with YOUR constitution then YOU need to do something about it other than whinging on forums. @2
You idiots get on here all the time "spouting off". Deal with it scrub. UK and Canada don't like when people talk about their country. They are so NATIONALISTIC AND PROTECTIVE. Our liberals fiercely oppose the TPP. I'm sure you can find some outstandingly fine American democrats to discuss TPP if you choose to do so. dudes are like we can catch more criminals. Let's feel some prisons with though criminals. Well it's been real. Have fun fearing the big scary interwebs. Those crazy right wingers are plotting against you. They really are