I see it as a Muslim ban. Many Americans see it as a Muslim ban. Feel free to call it whatever you want. Islam is the victim here. We're not at war with Islam. We're at war with people trying to use a religion as a justification for barbaric acts. So why aren't Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Afghanistan on the list? How does only banning citizens from these countries make us safer? Actually, my zeal is to defend things this country is supposed to stand for like freedom, liberty, due process, rule of law, etc. If that makes me a "SJW" I'll wear the badge proudly. And spare me the "I'm directly responsible" routine. I don't buy it when a criminal tries to use it ..."If you don't agree to my demands you are responsible for these deaths of these people"... I'm not buying it from you. I didn't sign the order. Trump did. If you get hated on, talk to him about it. Obama restricted VISA waivers from those countries. He didn't bar immigration and visitors from them. Don't blame this on Obama. As for what Israel does, I'm not a citizen of Israel. I'm an American.
Go and read 2 Timothy 4:3 If countrys and leaders like germany and merkel continue letting these people flow in they will never face their own problems forcing big countries to intervene causing collateral and voids of power and their will be a cycle of this. Go live in france for a year See how nice and wonderful these immigrants are. I mean is the fact that theyve burned down their own countrys not enough to show you they are dangerous? Yes some just want to better themselves but instead of running from their own problems they should fight for THEIR country to make it livable again. Also, I am not a bigot. I just despise when people are incapable of sourcing their own information validating it and then spreading it as opposed to only listening to what they want to hear in then throwing that crap around everywhere else. PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF HEARING IT! EDIT: Rearranged post so my main point is at the top. Id hate for anyone to have to spend more than 2 minutes reading reply's on this useless thread.
In Israel, all citizens take a practical integrated approach to homeland security.. Why is it relevant for this thread you say? Only cos I can post this pic.. #OpenCarryNShootTheTerroristsJudiciously
Thanks, OP, you just validated my entire argument. It's an Executive Order (caps for a proper noun), not a "Muslim ban" [sic] (quotes for the label); by calling it something that it is not you are being dishonest. Edit: call it what it is, you are not free to make-up inaccurate labels without being challenged. And your telling sentence that Islam is the victim, well apropos for disseminating their propaganda. As an intellectual exercise imagine if the Executive Order really was a total ban on entry to the United States of America by Muslims, then compare that scenario to this. If it was funny it would be hyperbole; but it's not a joke, so your exaggeration is harmful.
In 1924, US banned immigration from all "East Asians" that wasn't lifted till 1943. Trump is not exactly blazing a trail here.. Ofcourse, as I stated in another thread, the last time US went into isolationism, World War II happened.. just sayin.. A good short story to read.. James A. Michener's "Guadalcanal" from the collection "Return to Paradise".. a glimpse into US's psyche and isolationism some 80 years ago
@ IlSPIl0OIIKYIIGUllNlIlSHiPll I thought you were done here? I've lived in France. I've lived in many countries. They haven't "burned down their own country". We don't have same issues Europe does. Unvetted refugees aren't taking rafts from Libya to the US nor are they walking here. Refugees come here through a process that can take years. As for fighting for their country, 50% of the refugees we've taken in here so far are children. They aren't going to be much use on the battlefield. The bible quote is referring to you. This isn't sound doctrine. Try these: Leviticus 19:34 The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Matthew 25: 35 I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me. If we want Muslims to HELP us fight radical extremists and not BECOME radical extremists, then we have to stop demonizing their religion. This doesn't help us. This doesn't make us safer. It's that simple.
Ooo all the cool people are putting biblical chapter and verses.. I want to too!! "Ezekiel 25:17. "The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you." I been sayin' that **** for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ass. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a motherfucker before you popped a cap in his ass. But I saw some **** this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. .45 here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous ass in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that **** ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin, Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be the shepherd. "
Wild how you can go from sounding like a lunatic to someone with some decent sane views. I still dont agree with almost 100% of your original post. Why do you have to claim ridicoulus sounding lies before you come out as a normal person? Probably to trigger people and then have the advantage over someone who is then tilted by your words. Really, I dont know how you figure "white-supremacists" have killed more people than terrorists. You can not compare these statistics and only consider terrorist caused deaths in America, that is nothing less of a fabricated LIE. Also ftr it is not what trump did that is subjective it is how.. EDIT: Also, thank you for the bible verses. I should have considered those as well but at the time I was not expecting such a reply. I have some inner conflicts on the matter of immigrants myself, as an American. I want to follow these verses, but in this complicated world it has got to be done right to ensure safety and fairness... Something I wholly believe the left is incapable of doing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W5kdJQvwjeA Back in 2013, ABC News did a piece on Obama's 'travel restrictions' on 'Jihad Nations'... yet since Trump is doing the same thing, it's 'xenophobic and racist'... even though Islam is not a race.
@ - -_-OPTIMAL-_-CHAOS-_- I'm not sure Trump is calling all the shots, especially when it comes to foreign policy. He didn't come up with this EO. According to Rudy, he outsourced it to Giuliani. Giuliani: Trump asked me how to do a Muslim ban 'legally' http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... an-legally I don't have Donald finishing his term. I think he'll either resign to maintain control of his business (the conflicts of interests lawsuits are coming) or the GOP will throw him under a bus when he gets to be too embarrassing. The GOP owes him nothing and they'd still have Pence to sign everything they want. @ Ashes I find it odd how the Bible is super relevant if you have to bake a cake for some gays, but not if desperate people need your help. I'm an agnostic, but I'm pretty the Bible indicates Jesus spent most of his time helping people, not worrying about who is in a relationship with someone of the same gender.
Please. The cake baking bull crap is the lowest level of issues homosexual laws bring upon religious groups (notice I said laws not people) Plus just about any quote on homosexuality from the bible is destined to be taken completely out of context from the era and situation it was written in, from their misunderstood and used against christians.
He just issued a statement saying visas will be issued as soon as secure policies are put in place over the next 90 days. link to reuters article here: http://reut.rs/2kIB6aS
Theory dude, this is nothing more than an attack on anyone who differs from you, and trust me when I tell you that we are done with the likes of you. If you don't like that this country was founded on the constitution that Trump is right now upholding, if you don't like our Bill of Rights, then by all means LEAVE! We won't miss you. As divisive as the left has been throughout the presidential campaign, throwing stones at us and then playing the victim, we no longer care. It's people like yourself who pushed for the end result by way of your actions and our response was to talk to you at the voting booths, which happens to be the American way!
Probably because that's not what I said. I said: "Since 9/11, home-grown white supremacists and similar extremists have killed more Americans in the US than all Islamic extremists, American or non-American, put together." Source: June 28, 2015 "Since Sept. 11, 2001, nearly twice as many people have been killed by white supremacists, antigovernment fanatics and other non-Muslim extremists than by radical Muslims: 48 have been killed by extremists who are not Muslim, including the recent mass killing in Charleston, S.C., compared with 26 by self-proclaimed jihadists" https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/t ... .html?_r=0 You're welcome. I'm an agnostic, but I've read the book, cover to cover, several times. I'm also not left or right. I'm a pragmatist. If I thought this would keep us safer, I'd support it. It doesn't. I'm all for better vetting. I haven't heard what "extreme vetting" consists of. Nor have I heard how it will be paid for and who's going to do it. If the right wants government to do these things, then they're gonna to have to hire more people to do it, and find a way to pay for it. So far we've had a freeze on government hiring and all I've heard about is cutting taxes. That's not indicative of a comprehensive plan. So why didn't he put secure policies in place first, then issue an order restricting travel? Again, this is not indicative of a comprehensive plan. It's indicative of making up policy on the fly without fully thinking the process through. I'm not the one who said their religious beliefs were a basis to deny other citizens their rights under the Constitution. Religious groups were. Nor am I a fan of religious based laws, Sharia or Christian. My oath was to defend the Constitution, which provides for religious freedom of all citzens, not the Bible or any particular religion.
"Religious freedom for all citizens" I haven't seen any American citizens banned from the country, so this part of your argument seems invalid to me. I could be misunderstanding your statement.
Actually, Clinton won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes. If "We" is the American people, "We" didn't elect Trump. Trump was elected by the electoral college. That's the American way. It's in the Constitution. Look it up. By the way, the last Republican president didn't win the popular vote either. Go figure. I'm not sure how violating the due process and the equal protection clauses of the Constitution, plus adding a religious preference is "upholding the Constitution". Maybe you could explain it to us? Also, I seem to recall the right being pretty divisive over the last eight years. Someone kept saying Obama wasn't a legitimate president becasue he wasn't a US citizen. Who was that guy? Oh, right. Donald Trump. He also ran a pretty divisive campaign too. Finally, I'm not going anywhere. Neither are a lot of people. Get used to it.
Cry me a river OP. The only people that have a right to either enter or remain in the U.S. are American citizens. The 7 countries under the temporary ban are not countries Trump decided on for lack of business ties there. Nice try though. Fact check the below link bozo. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs ... er-program That U.S. government link, listing the same 7 countries, predates Trump. Keep throwing up fake news though. Just don't expect to catch me again with your trolls. You and your news are bogus.
That comment wasn't about the ban. It was about homosexual laws. It's bit of a mistake on my part anyway. The 1st Amendment like most of the Bill of Rights doesn't apply to US citizens only. They apply to any person within within U.S. territory, including those here illegally. That's why detainees are held in Gitmo and not the US. If we held them here, they'd have Constitutional rights.
Interesting someone is capable of self educating themselves on basic matters and even the bible even reads the NY times. But not surprising. Education does not = common sense anymore. So Since your sourcing fabricated lies... ("since 9/11" ofc they cant include the numbers before then because it would be astounding and against their entire narrative) Im out. For real, unless I see some sensical reply. Or to ofc call out any further obscene fabrications from un-creditable sources you may post..