Ever wonder what life would be like if religion was not invented hence non-existent? For all its good n bad would it be missed? Would the human race survive fine or not? 3 Q's i've always asked myself.... 1st Q i think of ppl not divided by religion. 2nd Q i think its one less master. 3rd Q i say we survived without it before. Overall its enriched the lives of many n harmed many others even death n oppression.
@ Jedi Military Chaplains don't have the same rights as civilian clergy. When you join the military you're subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice and military regulations. One of those regulations is a ban on proselytization. A Chaplin can not attempt to convert others to their faith, force their faith on others, or harass service members because of their religious views. The military is another example where overzealous people of faith have been getting away with violating religious freedoms for a long time. There are numerous examples. For many years there were mandatory prayers at the service academies. Just a few years ago the Army implemented mandatory Army-wide "Spiritual Fitness" test. Soldiers who failed it were directed to get further "training" and ordered to see Chaplains. Just last year an Airman was denied reenlistment unless he agreed to swear “so help me god.” At the Air Force Academy, a group called “Cadets for Christ” was openly and persistently attempting to convert other cadets to their brand of evangelical Christianity in violation of regulations, yet despite complaints authorities at the Academy did nothing to stop them until the case was made public. I could go on and on, but the point is the military has members with many different faiths or no faith. A Chaplin is aware of this when he joins and voluntarily agrees to certain restrictions just like every service member does. If they can't function within those restrictions, they shouldn't join the military.
Nighthawk Religion is a very personal thing and can and will always cause controversy. It's never going away because humanity seems to want to believe in a bigger something. There are many great things which have and will continue to happen because of people's faith and their ways of expressing it. Great art music and literature have all been inspired by the artists faith, it can give people focus and meaning to their lives, give the lost hope and something to cling to when everything else is gone. Those are some of the positives. However there are negatives every religion, cult or believe system seems to throw up some crazies or fundamentalist. Holy wars and deaths have happened and sadly still do when religions are used to justify hate fear ignorance and crass base stupidity . These aren't the best examples of people with faith. Look instead at the Dali Lama, Mother Teresa, men and women who seek to help not hurt. Maybe man was made in gods image, maybe there are infinitive turtles swimming through a vast cosmos each supporting a world all the way to the end of time, maybe religion is what allowed out ancestors to explain the, then unexplainable lights in the sky and noises in the wind. It doesn't really matter what you believe in or what you feel just be good to one and another tolerate the different.
Actually, not all religious institutions are tax exempt. (I see this on a daily basis with my business.) And just as many non-religious organizations also have tax exempt status. Your statement of "never-ending attempts to force their religious beliefs and ideas on the entirety of the U.S." is simply jargon from someone that doesn't like what others choose to believe. Give one example of the 'church' forcing you to believe something you don't believe. However, there are numerous examples of the government attempting to dictate what church leadership/church affiliated businesses can and can't do or say (The mayor of Houston requiring all pastors to submit their sermons to her office for approval, mandating that Catholic Convents that employ only elderly women past the age of childbearing to pay fines for not providing insurance for birth control and abortions) "Anti-science creationism in schools, religious morals regarding women's and gay rights" ... creationism isn't allowed to be taught even as a theory yet evolution THEORY is mandated as being accepted as total truth instead of the Theory that it is ... as for women's rights, the church was on the forefront of fighting for women to have equal rights during the suffrage movement (long before you were conceived) ... as for women's rights ... show me what right is being denied a woman in the USA at this time? this phrase has been used to mask the agenda of abortion advocates [and for the record, it takes a female AND a male to put a woman in the position to discuss wanting abortions ... the right to choice actually happens every time ... People are free to choose to not to have a child by not engaging in behavior that brings about a child and it's free ... No insurance needed ] As for National Holidays being based on Religious Holy Days ... Those existed long before this nation did ... where do you think the word "holiday" came from anyway? Haha As for the word God on the currency and in the pledge ... every nation since time began has had references to their deities and leaders on currency ... Egyptian gods, Sumerian kings, Assyrian deities, Roman-Greco gods, etc. America was founded by many people groups fleeing religious persecution so it's only expected to see that influence from the beginning (if the Pilgrims and other colonists had been from the Middle East, we'd have seen more of that religious background in the formation of the nation) "People of faith take for granted all of the benefits and concessions they have wrested from the government" I believe the opposite is just as true ... People of non-faith and anti-faith have taken for granted the benefits enjoyed today because of the church existing on a whole ... during some of this nation's darkest hours it was the church, not the government, that stepped up to help their fellow mankind ... just because you don't believe the way they do doesn't make them automatically evil and anti-supportive of your well-being ... When my wife's family were all killed in a single car wreck, it was the local church that helped us pay to bury them and brought us meals and helped us clean out the house ... they didn't even know us ... but not one atheist group showed up to help. "It is not the secular citizens who are wasting time by getting offended" ... your own statements above show you are HIGHLY offended. Again, back to my original point, rather than finding more and more things to divide the religious and non-religious groups, why not try to find the common ground and work along side each other on what we do agree with. My pm is ALWAYS open if you want to chat more ... maybe the new era will start with you and me being willing to work together? Cheers
Please do not dismiss the history of the religious right's attempts to "christianize" our laws, as jargon. That is a poor dodge of the issues. I gave several examples and I can find the case law to back it up. With a little work, you can do the research too - in fact, I encourage it (feel free to roe or wade right in). One example I mentioned was any and all attempts to insert creationism into the classroom. This is the very essence of the church trying to indoctrinate and instill beliefs in people. Please note there is no law against teaching this to children at church or at home, just against forcing the religious tenants on others' children. For the example you appear to be alluding to, of the religious groups forcing the government to allow discrimination based on their beliefs, you can look to today's paper and read about Indiana. You may cry foul, claiming (as a business) it is against your religion to have to treat people equally whom you religiously disapprove of. These are the same arguments that accompanied desegregation, where cries of "religious freedom" were touted as an excuse to exclude someone of a different race from a business. However, if you do business under the auspices of the U.S. and are protected by its laws, then you are also bound by the contract that (should) preclude discrimination. And yes, government does interfere with religious practices that violate public law. please note there is absolutely no restriction on beliefs, just on actions that impinge on others' rights or public law. Smoking peyote, although part of a religious ceremony central to a group's religious beliefs, was barred (not the beliefs, just the action). Any sort of human sacrifice is barred as violating any number of laws. The list goes on, never restraining beliefs, but only actions. This is the essence of the establishment clause. Everyone is protected in their beliefs. Actions are different in that they affect others and can impinge on their beliefs. (I know I keep pointing out the difference between freedom to believe and freedom to act, but when religious freedom arguments are made, they almost always entail acts rather than beliefs). Now on the other hand, the numerous benefits religious groups (particularly christians) get from the government is still vast (I named some of them above, you even alluded to some parts of religious institutions actually being (shudder) not tax-exempt - some). By the way, apart from proselytizing when they are working for the government or otherwise employed in an official capacity, when are christians governmentally prevented from having or expressing opinions? Please demonstrate how christians are restricted by the government in a way that non-christians are not.
Some of your statements are true. The military for this reason allows chaplains of every faith and soldiers may choose which chaplain to whom they want to talk. The military doesn't force a Muslim chaplain to perform Christian or Jewish services or rights because it is against their beliefs. However, a Christian chaplain is required to perform religious services for a same-sex couple even if against their beliefs. Now I'm not here to argue for or against same-sex marriages but I do submit to you that it shouldn't be forced. If the military doesn't want religious influence amongst their ranks, then why even have chaplains?
Update: the mayor of Houston was looking into a number of Pastors who were engaging in pure political speech, something that is not condoned by their tax-exempt status. The Mayor dropped the subpoenas. So it looks like those pastors have a tax-free place to be pure political actors (I understand that this area of tax law is a bit difficult to grasp, but there is a difference between suppression of speech and maintenance of a tax exempt status). The mandate on the nuns is that they, like everyone else, have to comply with the affordable health care act. Evolution is a theory, a scientific theory backed by all available evidence. Like gravity and the round earth theory. To teach creationism is to inject religious doctrine into the world of science. There are religious studies classes for that. Regarding the holidays. Thank you for making my point. We have nationalized the christian holy days. No-one gets paid days off for worship of the flying spaghetti monster. Jewish people may get Passover off, but the nation doesn't collectively take a break to allow it. If this doesn't start to feel as if christianity has a slightly favored status, its because you are used to being treated specially. The U.S. did not initially have the word "god" on its currency or in the pledge. Those were successful attempts by the church to brand parts of this nation with their own beliefs (considering ancient cultures had no law or even pretense of excluding religion from its laws - or any pretense of freedom or equality - they have no place in this discussion). By the way, it's nice that some religious people and groups have done good things. People who are not religious also do good things. I encourage anyone to do good things, for religious reasons or not. However, this discussion is about the relationship between religion (often particularly the church) and the U.S. Government, as part of a larger discussion on how this is not a christian nation, and it is silly and ignorant for people to get upset about school children learning the pledge of allegiance in Arabic. Have I addressed everything? I will ignore your spurious comments and characterizations (not very "christian" of you ). Did you manage to edit that without the "edit" note appearing? I feel that it looks different from when I first responded.
Do want the demographics given to you again? Or do you want to go back a page and look? The people are Christian. The people are the nation. So they nation is Christian. It's pretty easy to understand.
@Jedi Same sex marriages are recognized by the Department of Defense and 37 states. If a Chaplin refuses to perform the same ceremony for a gay couple that he would do for a hetro couple, my opinion is they need to leave the service. Your religious beliefs are not a basis to deny others their rights. Having said that, I can't find any examples of a Chaplin being "forced" to perform a same sex marriage and DoD policy has been that they aren't required to "A military chaplain may participate in or officiate any private ceremony, whether on or off a military installation, provided that the ceremony is not prohibited by applicable state and local law," a memo released Friday says. "Further a chaplain is not required to participate in or officiate a private ceremony if doing so would be in variance with the tenets of his or her religion." http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/30/us/same-s ... index.html As to why have Chaplins if the military doesn't want religious influence in the ranks, Chaplains are there to meet the spiritual needs of those service members who voluntarily seek them out. They're not there to recruit people to their faith, or to push their beliefs on service members who don't want them. As I said, your religious beliefs are not a basis for you to deny other people their rights. If there is a conflict between your beliefs and doing your job, you need to find employment in the private sector.
Churches have political pull. You should have heard the noise the black churches just put off to the black caucus. The congregations vote. Politicians want votes. Plus if they are doing their job to begin with, they would be represented the will of the people. No one would have to complain at church. I'll put the church against our broken, toxic political scene any day. You lefties need to wake up. Your base is Christian.
This is probably what happened with the pledge thing. I'm not reading that stuff. Some kids over reacted. Went home and told their parents some half truth that made them look like victims. The parents jumped the gun and did what parents do. Tried to protect their children. It's not even a thing. Just a misunderstanding. The principle said hey. I apologize. I'm out. All done. That community can handle their own business. In hind sight I probably was a learning experience for everyone.
No. It is not. If you want to use the "simple majority" argument, then because the founding fathers were mostly Diests and Masons of some sort or another, then the U.S. was founded as a Deists and Mason nation. A majority of the populace is white. Does that make us a "white" nation? Is that the standard we hold ourselves to? The nation was built on the principles of the Enlightenment, and even specifically addresses in the Bill of Rights, that the government may not establish a religion. By the founding documents of this country, we are not a christian nation. We are not a christian nation, we are not a white nation. We are a nation of citizens who aspire to ideals of freedom as per the social and societal contract that is our Constitution. It is in this unity through diversity that grants us strength as a nation, different from others before us. Despite attempts to turn back the clock to a more discriminatory age, the march to freedom continues.
"creationism isn't allowed to be taught even as a theory yet evolution THEORY is mandated as being accepted as total truth instead of the Theory that it is ..." The word theory doesn't mean the same thing in science as it does in common usage. Theory in scientific use does not mean guess or anything similar. For a scientific explanation to be called a theory, it must be well-supported by evidence. A scientific theory is an evidenced fact. Creationism isn't a theory. It's not even science. It's a religious hypothesis.
Yes if the people are Christian then you are in a Christian nation. Are you slow today? Blame the founders for establishing a nation designed for religion to flourish. They didn't have too, but they did. That's not saying other people aren't welcome. I mean look at the different denomination in Christianity. We are in a very open society. It just happens to be filled with Christians. You guys want to get up here and talk about politics. Talk about governing. Yet you ignore the fact the governed people are mostly Christian. If you want to lead them, you also have to represent their believes. If you can't do that, you have no business being thier representive. That wouldn't be democracy. So basically these arguments being made are anti democratic positions. You want things to be what a very slim minority want.
And on top of all that. I don't care what Ben Franklin did or was. He struggled with spirituality most of his life. I don't care what the founders did either. They knew all the people settling were Christian. They know all the slaves they kept, were going to be converted. By today's standards they were all bigots, and unworthy to serve. We don't judge that way though. This hip trendy version of B. Franklin is bs. You would be calling that man a extreme right wing terrorist if his opinions were actively in today's society. No one gives a crap about free masons or illuminati stuff either. The mason do what they want to do. Guess what. We haven't burned them at the cross. We know were all the lodges are. They haven't been razed. I've been to the "enlightened" places. The towns. When you roll in the sign tells what organization are the town. Mason lodges are on that sign. Tolerance, Peace, Love. If you want to take care of poor people, have a civil open minded society. That the circles I prefer. Helping the sick. The needy. The people no one else even looks at. You can stick the founder stuff...