School and Religion

Loyalty n patriotism has nothing to do with a pledge. Only words n action does count.

Religion is not a school subject but only a belief. School teaches facts not theology.
Secular diversity is for those who choose what they will n not what others decide.
Hypocritical to claim freedom in a so called christian nation if its the only faith that matters n acknowledged. State n Church should be separate for obvious reasons. Same goes for public schools n no child should be indoctrinated by special interests.

Swearing on the bible n 'In God we Trust'
r both examples of prejudice n bias. Secular segregation is unacceptable n has no place anywhere including getting an education.
A muslim can swear on the bible n commit no perjury as can an atheist. Not binding to those who do not hold the same beliefs.

Parents or schools or govt have no right or place to force any religion on anyone.
Disrespect of choice n privacy is basic rights.

My mother was Catholic n let me decide.
Which had a dubious beginning itself.
I saw too much death over religion thru centuries up until n including present day. I decided it was uncivilized n was unfounded stories n best to let ppl kill each other over nothing.

Just put the kids PS4 or XBox away n turn on one of the Evangelical tv programs.
Jerry Falwell or Oral Roberts or Jim Baaker can indoctrinate the youth of today for free.
Use the school taxes on schooling.

 

Nighthawk that's not true... There are many creationist schools that teach creationism instead of mainstream theories such as the big bang and evolution....

 

I feel bad for those children who are being taught creationism instead of science. They will probably spend more time learning how to argue against evidence, than by learning from it.

I'm glad that creationism is banned from the classrooms (except bible study classes), in public schools. At least those kids have a chance to learn deductive reasoning and scientific theory.

 

There you go again with that word, theory. You keep using it, I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

a theory as you and i use it means an assumption, hypothesis.
In science a theory is the highest possible position an 'idea' can have, you and i would call that a fact. They can be tested and repeated. They have predictive capabilities.
eg: i drop a stone and it will accelerate 9,8m/s/s
yay

 

As I said, people confuse creationism with science end up spending their time fighting against evidence and terminology rather than learning from it.

No matter how clearly or repeatedly it is explained, zeth here, will never understand how the word "theory" is used and accepted in science.

 

I disagree with evolution as far as it being the "origin if all life". My primary objection to it stems from the fact that I believe that consciousness creates reality, and if we look at the beginning of evolution, there is nothing there to collapse the wave function.

I also object to certain leaps in evolution that I believe are unbridgeable.

That being said, I was taught evolution both in high school and even in college, so my objections come from an informed knowledge base.

Evolution needs to be taught in school because it's the prevailing theory of the day, and it's important to be up on those. People who wish to disagree with evolution need to learn about it first to understand what they object to.

Disclaimer: I do not subscribe to creationism theory either. I believe that at this point the origins of life are still a scientific mystery, although as we push the boundaries of quantum physics we will start to see answers, and those answers will be far stranger than what we could possibly predict

 

I'm in the same boat, I don't think we will ever find out though tbh. There will always be the question of "who/what created that"

 

evolution only describes changes in life, not the starting of it. That would be biogenisis, which indeed is still a mystery...

 

Good point and nice distinction.

 

The "under Allah" part in my post was referring to the fact that Allah is an Arabic word for God. I'm not a Muslim myself, but I would think that Allah is what most Muslims would prefer.


And separation of church and state doesn't appear in the Constitution. And I'm not saying that creationism should be taught in science class. (Maybe they should teach Darwinism in Science and Creationism in History? I believe both, personally. I believe that God created chemistry, physics, ecology, etc. and used them as tools with which to create. And I believe in God with evidence I have perceived myself, not because of indoctrination. But my proof might not work for anyone else, because I was the only person who experienced what I did.) Separation of church and state was originally used by Thomas Jefferson in a private letter to the Danbury Baptists 11 years after the constitution was ratified. He wrote it to explain that the church was protected from the state. But that doesn't mean that a school isn't allowed to have any mention of God or not have the moment of silence. But if you don't want to say the Pledge, don't say it, but respect the place your in- an American school. And maybe "under God" wasn't originally part of it, but it was added to the pledge over time, and now it's here.


Now, should a kid get in trouble for not saying the pledge if he doesn't want to? No. But should he get in trouble for attempting to stop others from saying it? Yes, because he's in the way of others trying to be patriotic. Not legal trouble, but something like a note home or whatever they use now? The same should apply for a moment of silence. The kid doesn't have to pray, and he won't get in trouble if he doesn't, but he should get in trouble for causing a ruckus for everyone else who's trying to pray.


Is that so bad?

 

to me the problem is you can only chose to not do it. It would make more sense to chose to do it.

 

If you can choose not to do it, doesn't that also mean that there is a a choice to do it?

 

its not really a choice to do it, its a given. unless you chose to not say it.

 

Also - words are not patriotic, actions are. Saying something litterally means NOTHING.

An example..

Divorce in the usa, 40-50% end up gettin divorced. Until death do us part indeed

 

Ah I see the white supremacist has weighed in....hmmmm? What was your beloved nation socialism founded on ? You pledge to Adolph we pledge to our constitution written by people of religious morals.

Thank you come again

 

How did you get white supremacist out of that? I understand that you are wrong and cannot back up your contention that the founding fathers wanted christianity in the U.S. (Although you are clever enough to not say "christianity" directly), but that does not allow you to dismiss the actual argument with an ad honim personal attack.

If that's what you have to do, obviously your argument can't be supported.

 

One of the best answer again. And I don't know willy that much, but if he made this thread to answer that question, it is already answered. You already have enough. I do not mean to say "lock it" but I instead request it because if not the thread will eventually derail to religious vs science fights again... If you want debate, then you already have enough answers, pls do not let this thread made those huge fights again... Unless you want those....

My country is better, even though we have a lot of religions in our country and many believe in science and some are agnostic, we don't fight over it. We know that we can't convince each other by keep pushing these things to each other. If someone don't like their religion, they wouldn't hesitate to force them (some just try to convince, but not force. Some are though, but only very few). Even scientists just keep their mouths shut because nothing would change if they force us to do so. And some of our scientists also believe in God, even though they are, scientists. When it comes to religion vs science, we don't have one here.

I wish others do the same because how many times you tell the facts if we are true believers we wouldn't give up in God. And even though we believe in God, that doesn't mean that we don't believe in science and that doesn't mean that we were alike to the Christians that you have met.

I also realized that I have joined the fight.... Come on be content of your own. This makes me thought that most of the ppl in our country (which is a third world country) respect each other's desicion than in the west... Well not all of course, and I don't know about Europeans.

 

That is so unbelievably uncalled for and out of order.

Your also wrong, the religious beliefs of the founding fathers is completely irrelevant. The entirety of the American independance and your constitution comes from british / empire traditions and English common law.

 

Why is that the guys and gals who get the facts right are ignored while everyone else puts their attention on the people who say things of idiocy and hypocrisy?