@ Station Yes, you are correct, we build our roster specifically for that. It is also worth noting that we really felt like our roster was a bit top heavy last night and could have used another mid or two to keep the CS down. Part of the issue there is what do you consider "small builds" and what do you consider "mids". Those terms are obviously relative as a 6m CS player looks huge to a new guy and a 15m CS player looks huge to the 6m CS guy. Part of my point though is that there is a place for all of the builds if you construct your roster properly. You want the full range if you can: small, medium, large, atk, spy, etc. Personally, I think the term "mids" is really a couple of categories. There are the small mids that are either beefed up GH's or simply just smaller folks. We have a few of those with 800K-1m atk and def and then 1.5m spy atk/def (so about 5m CS or so). They would be considered a mid-sized build by most folks and even though they're smaller, they are very useful. Most GH/Sos1 cannot hit them successfully and they can be used to keep those smaller opponents in check. They can also plunder larger hansels with atk and if high on troops can successfully hit folks with up to 4m def when they're coming out of KO. Then I think there are another group of "mids" that are the larger atk or hybrid builds, usually with towers. These folks usually range anywhere from 10-15m CS and most people I don't think would consider them really large builds. A couple good examples of this would be Erin_Killarney (about 5m atk and 1.2m spy atk, then towered to tank some hits) as well as BUDwiser (3.5m atk and 1m spy atk with towers to help tank some). Both would not really be considered "large" builds and both clearly face some limitations on who they can hit successfully as their atk isn't high enough to pound a guy with 8-10m def. However, Erin is kindly referred to as our queen of KO's cuz she whoops the crap out of folks. Same with Bud and Bud usually does it while calling the war as well. You're right that you can't build a roster with 15 of those folks and hope to win....but you probably want at least 3-5 if you're going to get a good matchup and win. PS. As I have typed this I see Erin and Bud have made posts. LOL. I guess the key is what you consider a "mid-sized" build because I would definitely put a number of our peeps in the group and I would argue that they are not just needed but necessary for our success.
Also @ station I agree that that the opponents had a less than perfect roster to face us, too many mids honestly, too much dispersed CS that wasn't useful. But that's my point exactly. It wasn't a "bad match" and it wasn't that our clans had "no business facing eachother".....it's that they didn't build the best roster for war that they could/should have. Just because they had too many mids doesn't mean mids aren't useful or the system is flawed...it just means they're not being used right (Like a medieval war with all foot soldiers and almost no archers or cavalry)
@ me This is OP, I'm posting on my small build that I bring to war 1/2 the time so you can pull it up and see his setup. I am/was an HLBC GH and have added 3 spy tree on the HF to regain as much of my lost hit range as I could post GH nerf. I also have a good amount of BFA but not excessively huge. Regarding your comment that, "The GH and now the SH aren't primarily in wars because of their awesome plunder capabilities - they are simply there to bring down the average cs in the combination with the LB without leaking plunder." .... I completely disagree. Yes, one of the side effects is the drop in clan CS but I plunder like a boss when I use this build. One of my good friends Tuxedocat brought his build to Monday's war and plundered highly as well. Regarding your comment that, "So basically, the amount a GH/SH makes becomes almost irrelevant. The fact that they are 'unplunderable' by middle builds is the real problem which the current 'nerf' does nothing for." Again, you can build a roster to address this by bringing in those smaller builds that can keep GH in check and still pay well because they are not so highly overpowering the GH they are hitting. Tuxedocat is a perfect example. When he came, he plundered the crap out of the other side's GH and was a big contributor in plunder while also keeping them in check. His setup allows him to hit GH and make good plunder. If you sit some 10-12m CS folks on GH, then yes, they make no gold. So don't do that. Get guys like Tux in there to do that job. The fix to the problem isn't KaW making a change, it's building a roster to avoid facing the monster clans and building a roster to have the peeps needed to address ALL of the builds that the other side has.
So in other words if you can't beat them, join them. Op kaw game play used to be all about growing big and reaching LB EE no longer promotes this as you suggest change builds / find builds to avoid miss matches. Why because the system is not quite right.
Op you raise some interesting points, some of which makes sense, some doesn't. You explain different builds as old style archers etc, now I agree completely a mix of all builds would be awesome, but I think we know whats realistic when the gh/lb roster's dominate, why would these clans choose to take on a larger variety of builds, when theyre already winning 85-90% of their wars. I disagree this issue just needs some new thinking or attitudes, this is a problem that requires "fixing" Until theres some incentive or something done change current mechanics, why would people change?
Kaw Thanks for jumping in thread it's very nice to learn we aren't just wasting time writing in forums. A lot of us do understand that the data compiled on these wars is massive and trying to please everyone you end up pleasing no one. I know a lot of clans - players actually - that were excited about possibly bringing all the old friends together to war season 3 as the roster size at 11 is not hard to assemble. I see the reasoning behind 25 man rosters as a way to mitigate the current roster structuring, but a tiered war system with the reduced # at 11 - more people war season due to rewards... Would getting enough clans to fight in each tier be that hard? Also I know it might anger a few but having a complete break in EE wars for a couple weeks might lend to more clans having time to recruit and structure and build suspense for the next up coming season further increasing participation
@ Steve I don't understand your comment that I'm advocating "If you can't beat em, join em". How are we "joining" the GH/LB folks by building a roster that includes zero ally LB peeps and is set up to avoid matching them? I'm advocating the opposite. Build a smart roster and don't go that route. We specifically don't want to match up with Rising Hawks (the most commonly pointed to clan for GH/LB setup although I'm not sure it's an accurate assertion). Rising Hawks are just really damn good at what they do. They are awesome at war in all regards, leadership, strategy, rosters, etc. I think you're misunderstanding my post as I'm advocating not going the LB/GH route because that will keep you from matching the LB/GH clans. Also, I'm not sure I'd agree with the assertion that KaW game play used to be all about growing big and reaching LB. I'm sure that was/is the goal for lots of folks but not all. KaW offers lots of different ways to play based on each person's preference. You can shoot to be the biggest, you can shoot to be the best warrior, you can shoot to be the best at OSW, you can shoot to be the best farmer and collector of noob tears. Being the biggest isn't the goal, being the best at whatever you like is. EE does complement that. You don't need to be the biggest to be the best. @ Hawkeye I think you (and others) are misunderstanging my original post. I'm not saying the stereotypical LB/GH clans should be changing their roster to include more mids. My target audience is all of the other clans that are complaining about war and not being able to put together a winning roster. I don't think Rising Hawks should change a thing about what they do cuz quite frankly it kicks ass. But most clans can't build a roster like RH, there just aren't enough LB and GH to go around. My post is for all of those other clans. It's a plan to avoid facing folks like RH and a plan to get war matchups that you'll enjoy and win.
Glad to see kaw admin make a real response. While your here go read stations posts a few times, anytime he talks about this ee garbage I couldn't of sayed it better myself and addresses the primary issue.
Kaw admin, I think it may be worth a try trying tier wars and seeing if more people give it a shot. I do not know how clans are matched I am sure it is a complicated process. I really do not know what would "fix" the lb/sh roaster other than splitting them up. I have dedicated a lot of time and cash on xtals to warring in the past but truth be told I will not anymore. Wars as a mid-sized build are generally a massacre especially when the hit ratio matching seems a little bit off. In one of my last wars I was sat on by 3 gh/sh that seemingly nobody else could hit, and payed me 3m a hit. Any effort I made to sko or xtal was quite futile. The reward for being a small gh/sh in a war are in my opinion far to great. The ability to punch through mids, get higher mith payout, and take less hits(hit ratio) and crap plunder they pay is causing people like the mid sized players to look at their options. 90% of them look at the two choices, either grow or drop build. They nearly always drop. I do not think people should be rewarded for dropping build. I believe those who worked on their build, do not want to tear it down, and would like to war with them should get the chance Thanks Martyr
I guess that's one of the main differences in opinion surrounding this. Some think players need to change to adapt to the gh menace, while others see it as an inherent problem in the system. I for one stand by my beliefs that any system that so heavily rewards dropping stats is flawed
Tr1 there is no doubt in my mind you have the greatest leadership in KAW. Most people I know respect your clan leadership but please I am not naive. I will concede the point that your clan would be a winner regardless of stacking because of leadership. Your amazing win streak however is undeniable linked to the way you stack your roster and you have the best pool of GH & LB to pull from. Any clan can get a GH, hell people can make a GH in a couple of days but will it be as good as an RH GH? No I don't think so. PS Like the majority of KAW I do check your roster daily and in a 29 man roster you usually use 14 to 15 "ripped GH".
well my clan uses ghs one ps and tower builds and **** and yesturday we had a intense war vs LARs sub clan but our strat was beast thnx to our wc and they had two LB on there side but we had a strat and a close war fam we try to do 2 wars a day maybe jus maybe 3 like we r trying to make a name we use strat and we kick ass
I find it hilarious when people try and suggest rh is just the best at all aspects of war. Most of the top 10-20 war clans are all excellent at strategy, planning and execution. No one debates they know what they're doing, but the only reason they have the win streak they do, and don't have the same bad match losses other high lvl war clans get. Without their gh roster they would get beat like any other clan.
We can't simply 'try tiers'. I've tried to come up with a couple of designs that would be easy to 'try', but ultimately it's a huge change that would take weeks of dev time to test a theory that may, or may not make things better.
These 'tiers' could refer to achievements rather than build / leaderboard size Some achievement references could be; - Unlocking X lands on LL, HL and IL - Attacks, Scouts, Steals and/or Assassination achievements Just an idea, not sure if its been previously posted.
It's not as simple as increasing plunder from gh sadly... The way the current match up system work (and believe me it's not the matching that's the issue most times tho it's the wide windows of variance that's an issue but small windows with dts/dtw matching leads to this many no matches) They need to regulate plunder across all builds making the plunder ability of both clans equal at the start of war ... Every build makes the same per successful hit as every other build no matter the target or size Turn dts/dtw off so that mids and larger accounts can now hit gh and other smaller builds for same plunder that the lb make hitting them And don't allow builds in war without troop buildings That way if u want a dumbbell shaped roster it's fine u match all medium size builds Gh get less actions hitting up lb get more hitting down but over all the same plunder can be earned by both sides in every war as long as over all size of both clans are closer This would allow for more matches because dts/dtw is taken away and a lot of clans true over all strengths are closer then this system shows it's plunder that gets screwed up For example 1 team has 3 lb 2 larger 5 mids 10 gh Other clan has 1 lb 4 larger and 15 mids While it's true u can't hit clan a lb and clan b lb and larders will be beat on by clan a lb Clan b mids can take advantage of clan a bottom for same plunder U would have to choose even roster or large /small roster with leaks These two clans only matched because clan a cast weaker builds the problem is the system considers them weaker but doesn't allow clan b to capitalize on that weakness All in all it would get people warring more with their own size over time and stop the abuse of the matching algorithm ... Would also even out and regulate war results for easier data comparison for future adjustments and would allow for tighter matching of overall size I will say I posted this before and much more well written out but as I see it it's the only real fix for how far the system has gone out of sorts Also like to add that the longer and more wars the devs allow the system to be broke in this way the more of an uproar their will be when u have to finally break down and fix it for good