If religion is dying then the world is dying, while I believe in god I don't feel the need to label myself. Religion is also to make sure humanity is kept in check, you think the world is better off without it? That's crazy, human nature is barbaric, we needed it then and we need it now,it went together with the laws that kings placed upon their kingdom, and we needed that to get us through the times. Today it hasn't changed much, we rebelled against order, and sometimes religion, and in some cases it didn't end well
Mankind ain't gonna really band together and hold hands, while I'm not saying that is what religion is completely for, but it is there to keep us in line, if not we will forsake everything we we're taught, and as Kanye west said "No Church in the wild"
Again u are not talking about science and scientists. 1. A scientific theory DOES get decided in a very short amount of time. Whether or not this theory has a long or short life depends on whether someone is able to disprove that theory. You need to have clear proof that a theory or part of a theory is incorrect or maybe incomplete. Science is all about being correct or incorrect, there is no debate. If u can prove it false the theory is no longer. If u can't prove it is inaccurate, the theory stands ... Also the theory of evolution is fully accepted in science. Don't mistake a few religious nutters who think the earth is 6000 years old and man rode dinosaurs as a scientific debate... Gravity is a concept described by theories. I will try to explain. When the apple fell on Newton's head, he developed a number of theories... Action = Reaction Items with a mass are drawn together. Etc... One of the early formulas was F=m.a. The force exerted on a mass on earth = it's mass multiplied by gravitational acceleration. (9.81 m/s2). This theorie/formula can be disproven in a number of ways: 1. The 9.81 value is not the same if u are at the equator or at the north pole 2. The force above doesn't iclude the attraction of the moon and other planets or stars So the theorie was fine tuned in a formula of gravitational attraction between 2 bodies of mass. We continue to fine tune the behavior of 2 bodies when they are electrically charged. Whether they are very small and new forces such as atomic forces (strong and weak force) are discovered. So please stop talking about science as an old mans club where every brain fart of a geriatric pipe smoking grandaddy has any kind of scientific weight ... You disprove a scientific theorie or you shut up and work a bit harder to disprove it. Or even better, stop trying to disprove an established theory because it doesn't match with your special brand of fairytale and your preferred imaginary friend. Spend your energy in a new theory. Get an original thought, create a new theory and open it up to the scrutiny of other scientists ...
@Mudvet Ok. I guess I don't know enough about the science part, but I'm at least willing to admit it. To me, it looks like you don't understand much about anything in regards to religion other than the crap that you find on the Internet or whatever your source of information for religion is (which you still haven't commented on).
I will stop debating you know. It is clear that everything u said about science, you pulled straight of of your ass. On me saying that the invasion of the middle east was because of religion is equally incorrect. Check my post on that and actually read it or ask someone who can read, to read it out loud to you. I will accept your apologies for slandering me on this forum after u have done that ...
Religion was created by humans. In itself it is flawed. I don't know what you mean by "institutions". It wasn't the institutions which said that a man should be stoned to death for working on a Sunday, or that a woman has to marry a man if he rapes her, or that you will suffer eternally if you don't believe in god (this was introduced in new testament). The bible itself has hundreds of contradictions. In my view it doesn't matter if a religion preaches a perceived good or bad. If it is false, then it should not be taken seriously or believed. Institutions do not play a role in whether the biblical stories are true or not. It's easy for me to say that Christianity and Buddhism (Buddhists believe that a child born with a disease had bad karma in a past life due to a terrible act, so they are not sympathetic to that person) are unethical, but that doesn't really mean anything. If a religion were unethical but proven to be true, then I might believe. But none have been proven to be true, and therefore I cannot believe in any.
Like 70% of Sweden is atheist, along with high numbers in other European countries. Are they barbaric? No. In many cases there's less violent crime than in America.
To wazgoingonhere: Other than your complete inane statements on science, you accused me that I said the middle east was attacked because of religion. There! Now u don't even have to ask someone else to help you look for it and read it! It is clear you lack the intellectual capacity and honesty to have a proper debate. You don't listen to what people say/read but interpret it as what you WANT to hear. That also explains why you believe in your little imaginary friend and keep supporting that religion that has officials who abuse little children and forbid Africans from using Condoms amidst an AIDS plague. ... I don't blame u for it, U just don't know any better ...
@Mudvet At no point did I attempt to disprove any form of science. What I was trying to do is to use your language to get you to better understand religion. And i did read your comment on the middle east and religion. Quoted it multiple times, trying to find out where you got your information besides out of YOUR ass. I will not apologize to such a close-minded person simply because you don't have any actual information or research on the topic of religion and have no way to stand up to the information on religion that I have brought to the table.
@Nathan @Mudvet Please prove a scientific theory for me right now. Nathan says you can't believe because it can't be proven. I know enough about science to know that nothing in science can be proven, only disproven.
The problems in the middle east extend from a lack of stability. Even without Islam, there would be another religion in the region that would be just as bad. Christianity was far worse at some points in its history. Millions of people have died in Catholic vs. Protestant wars. The failure in the Arabian world lies more in the history of the Ottoman Empire and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and American funding/training of the Taliban rather that in Islam alone. So no, you can't say "this one Abrahamic religion is bad" when they're all basically the same when it comes to morality. They come from the same general regions: Israel and Arabia. Islam is derived from Judaism/Christianity.
Looking at the last 3 paragraphs. Please tell me the lack of religion in attacks that you are now claiming
Right. But you still need evidence... that is what I mean by proven. So for the theory of evolution we have tons of proof such as fossils, DNA, heredity, experiments with bacteria where evolution has been witnessed, etc. There's not that same level of evidence for Christianity.
Mudvet, I don't think America attacked for profits of any kind. The war caused trillions of debts. If for any profit reasons whatsoever, it was more of a way for lucrative private deals where private companies were given contracts to supply the military. The country as a whole definitely did not make money from the war. Besides, America is full of oil. Today it's one of the world's largest producers of it - I think it recently started producing enough that it doesn't import any net oil.
I was raised as Catholic and I in no way support the abuse of anyone. I'm not overly religious at all but believing in any religion, whatever it is, doesn't mean you support abuse that goes on by people who are supposed to be role models of the religion. Again, it's the actions of a minority that are governing everyones opinions of the majority. Since when does being Catholic mean you support the priests who abused their power over people and physically abused people? That's essentially what your comment means. If people choose to believe in a religion, that is their decision and their decision alone. The problem arises when people 1)Try to force their religion on to others 2) Insult each other for what they do or don't believe in and 3) Use religion as an excuse for violence. Religion is a man made concept. If we weren't arguing about this, we would be arguing about something else. At the end of the day, we all bleed red. Hate, stupidity and violence are not the characteristics of a religin or a country or a nationality, they are characteristics of the human race.
Indeed Nathan, That is the sad part of it, This illegal war will be paid by ordinary Americans, while quite a bit of corporate America got rich of it. Arms manufacturers, Oil companies, private military companies, etc etc... Average joes have paid with the life of their sons and daughters and will pay again by working away the huge debt or suffering through a bankruptcy of the US.
Your focus seems to be mainly on Christianity, which limits what I'm can to respond in terms of all religion. Evidence for any religion is of course going to be difficult to find, they are faith based ideas. Many of these religions, at the very heart of the idea is the belief that humanity is meant to cause pain and is meant to suffer. For that basic belief, i do not believe you need evidence. Where religions tend to differ is on how to transcend our ugly human nature. It's all theory, but I think history can provide evidence as to the success of religions in overcoming pain and suffering. Ghandi used Hinduism and Christianity to help bring an end to British colonialism. He added Islam when trying to negotiate peace between Muslims and Hindus. MLKJ used Christianity and Hinduism to help overcome racial inequality. Saint Francis of Assisi used Christianity to help bring nature back under the protection of religion. Pope Francis I is trying to use all religions to combat the global environmental crisis, inequality, and poverty. Many Muslims and Christians are trying to stop the circumcision of females in Africa. The list goes on. Are there plenty of bad things associated with religions, yes. Does that mean they are a part of the religion itself, no. Instead of a separate post to quote you, i will just continue here. You talked about the many people that have died in the name of a religion in wars. Yeah, they have. Did the religion state that you must hate these people and go to war with them? No. People in power (institutions) manipulated people into believing those things. And this is basically how just about every war starts, not just "religious" wars.
Just want to point out that, yes, America does have plenty of oil in its borders, it is very unrefined oil that takes lots of processes to get it to be of use, whereas oil from, say Saudi Arabia, is much more refined oil, so that oil doesn't need as much done with it. A biology professor of mine said that we have to dig and frack a lot to get what we need for usable consumption, but in the Middle East "you can stick a straw in the ground and have clean oil come up." There is a bit of sarcasm in there in case you didn't notice (you and Mudvet seem to take everything very literally).
1. I was raised as a Catholic too, but when I was 12 I realized there was something seriously wrong with what they were trying to indoctrinate me with. 2. My comment means what it says a. He supports that religion b. That religion has officials who abuse .... Nothing more nothing less. For me that is enough to critically start assessing if I want anything to do with that institution and it's associated religion. It is true that not all officials were offenders but I was appalled by the consistent efforts to hide what happened and to just move these offenders to new parishes where they could start over.