Orisons of Glory - Part 8

DemonSlayer said:
It is BS that someone can hit you and steal all sorts of favors and then you try to get them back and are told the opponent is too weak. Especially when they are big but unbalanced.
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Go take a look at belle's fight mechanics thread, you will learn about a lot of cool stuff like players being in pin.
 
zorkay said:
DemonSlayer said:
It is BS that someone can hit you and steal all sorts of favors and then you try to get them back and are told the opponent is too weak. Especially when they are big but unbalanced.
Click to expand...

Go take a look at belle's fight mechanics thread, you will learn about a lot of cool stuff like players being in pin.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't have time to deal with all of that.
 
Got to hand it to devs. Idea of the event is awesome especially for those who love pvp. Just ratio of losing compared to what we win back from same player is grossly uneven. I have people taking 2k items to turn around and hit them back for a huge 6. That definitely isn't a great ratio. If that were adjusted I'm sure more ppl would be happier with these kind of events.
Overall great idea and lots of fun. Haven't had so much Inc in years 
Keep up the great work 
 
DemonSlayer said:
zorkay said:
DemonSlayer said:
It is BS that someone can hit you and steal all sorts of favors and then you try to get them back and are told the opponent is too weak. Especially when they are big but unbalanced.
Click to expand...

Go take a look at belle's fight mechanics thread, you will learn about a lot of cool stuff like players being in pin.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't have time to deal with all of that.
Click to expand...

Ok, then stop complaining.
 
This event relies less on spending than any other. You can get hundreds of thousands of favors by picking targets carefully. If you're good, it should be possible (in theory) to get 10k per unload. Assuming you have a few well-paying targets and get favors a couple times before they get shielded.

It's a bit difficult in practice, but really as a free player, if you're dedicated, you could net upwards of 50k without hitting any prem ebs. If I had the time to dedicate (as I'm a free player), I'd sure be doing that. I don't have that time though, so as I'm doing less work I'll accept less reward (which will still be a very, very good reward though--the tiers are insanely nice for opted in players).
 
Thrawn that works at your size. I suggest hitting players my size or double my size. When you get bigger that cut off actually changes hugely.

And found this and it's entirely appropriate



_____NIGHTWING_____ said:
The Idea
To change events to paying one event token per action. ( to clarify one token in this context means one item that we have to hunt for. Ie rope or grappling hook. Each event would require hunting just one item).

Actions included would be attack, assa, steal and scout.

Currently event rewards are dropped based on size and the size of the epic battle.
The larger your account the easier it is to succeed in these events.
Why?
1 they can hit lotl and asof b2b in rapid succession.
2 they can run these events for free making the max tiers with no real expense.
I literally know players that have hit lotl and asof b2 for 3 days and got to 15,000 the top set tier with zero xtals just getting max drops based on size and the speed of the ebs.

Why this is so unfair on the community.
1 the biggest players get the best rewards.
Not necessarily the most deserving system because of the following reason.
The lb can run these ebs as easily as an average clan can run an AFF.
They obviously have massive appeal to clans that let in jumpers.
Now where this is the most detrimental is simple.
The pressure on the community is to run lotl and asof b2b for the highest event drops. This destroys small and mid players.
Just during this event minimum stats for lotl and asof have changed in clans I have visited from 50mcs through 70-80-100mcs.
That is a massive amount of players excluded from the only epic battles that give them a shot at the top tier rewards.

Now yes you can argue that players set those limits.
But the devs linked the top drops to those epic battles. They require 2 of those epic battles a day to get the top set tier prizes (not the top 500 spots). For most clans to compete. They have no choice but to put the stats up to run two a day.
This means dropping loyal smaller members or having their bigs leave for other clans that can run the required events.

That is destroying smaller non lb clans and completely destroying the game for many small to mid players.
To explain this further. At the moment mids and smalls run to the largest clans they can for event drops.
With this system the gold stays the same. Size accounts for that as always.
But, and it's a big but.
It won't matter if a clan runs ten ebs a day or one.
It doesn't matter if people jump for faster ebs, because all that counts is their daily actions.
It won't stop big clans running asof and lotl for gold.
But it does stop people needing to beg for those epics just to get tokens.
It means people can't compete wherever they are. Whatever eb they are involved in.



Add to that scenario
Any player may do 700 actions a day. Yet only limited players will gain the top rewards for those actions.
Mids and smalls are essentially forced to pay be it in xtals or hte pay to play ebs to gain the same prize level that other players obtain for FREE in 3 days. 
This is my largest complaint with this system. Why should any player have to pay for something other players are given for free during a limited time promo?

The largest players get the largest gold already. They have earnt that right in normal aspects of the game. Or paid for it.
But when a limited time event comes along and prizes are directly linked to
The largest epic battle
The size of the build
And how much someone can spend
Then there is a very serious issue. As this does two things.
One the smalls to mids have to pay for the 15,000 level prizes or work massively harder than larger accounts that can gain that prizes for free in 3 days.

So the when have issue two ( excluding the resentment of paying customers getting less than free playing customers).
Only the lb or the extreme competitive chase the top 500 slots. They deserve the level they pay for. That's fair enough. The new system would reward their spending giving them the max top 500 prizes that they actually compete and earn.
But the main failing in this system is. Many I have spoken to actually spend a set amount.
Many don't spend at all. And yet many of them still gain the top prizes purely on size.
Why should players that can regularly gain top prizes, buy xtals if they can gain top prizes for free?
The answer is they don't.

This current system essentially rigs the top prizes. Those ones were only the top 500 or less can get.
Remember these events are limited time offers.
So those free playing bigs that are getting 1000 more silver bars than you are paying for are getting them for free.
Only the very pinnacle of the lb that chase the very top prizes competitively spend to get there. And their money their xtals, have a far higher event item reward than yours or mine.

So no matter what a small or mid does. They will never be able to compete in events.
Those at the top can ride for free whilst others like "yes" myself actually despise paying to get something that they get for free.
Why should I pay for something other players get for free ?
And more importantly why should you?

Solution 

So the fix is actually very easy. 
One attack, steal, assa or scout be it eb or pvp earns one event token.
Item stages are excluded solely because they can be exploited massively.


Why would this help us

Because from the start of the event it puts everyone at the same level for a limited time promo.

It means that ACTIVITY and only activity determines the prize levels. On set tiers.

Big or small or mid. No matter. All actions and all xtals hold the same event value.
It means we know exactly how many actions we need to put in a day to reach each event tier.
But primarily it gives all our money the same value for the duration of events. In event tokens at least. Not gold.


Why would this help devs

Those 3 day free rides become a thing of the past. Players have to be competitive.
Players like myself and many others would be more inclined to spend if we know we can actually get a true value for our real money purchase. ( ie a set amount of actions / event items for each xtal )

A predicted response here based on past dev response to similar concern would be to say that smalls do not need to spend as they can grow and in years ( yeah years to come ) grow to a size where they can compete for the equipment and silver bars a year or two down the line )
Simple answer to that. " so you are telling me not to compete in events and that you don't want my money ? Not sure that makes good business sense, nor does it encourage player retention.
Just as now giving some players something that many of us have to pay for the same thing for free is not great business or encouraging to keeping players interested.


Why it would balance the game.

Because it means that the build complete players or at least very large players now free loading off lotl and asof have to put actions at a set rate into the event, the same as every other player. If they want the top prizes. They have to xtal like the rest of us.
Want the top spot. Spend the most or never sleep.
But set tiers become achievable for everyone. And that makes the events worthwhile for everyone.

The careful balance that needs to happen here is that prize tiers need to be set based on actions and possible actions.

My personal suggestion should be that tier 13 should be attainable for 12-14 full offloads a day. But that is better judged by those with full access to average player offloads per day.
This gives plenty of scope for mass activity promoting playing the game. As well as limited but realistic spending by most accounts.
Lack of spending can be compensated for with huge activity. And vice versa.
Leaving those who normally spend to the extreme chasing the top ( 500 ) slots.


Why it would benefit clans

This is the biggest plus.
It means that any clan at any level of build can keep its members at home. They don't have to run off to try and get an lotl or asof at other clans.
They don't have to run specific epic battles at all.
They can even war, osw or run any epic battle as they like.
It simply doesn't matter what you run. Only the actions that a player puts in to the event count.
1 action = 1 event token.
So each player is responsible for their own level of prizes.
Each clan no longer has to try and struggle to run huge epics at insane speeds or have the members poached by other clans.
Loyalty will actually be possible staying at home will become a viable option for everyone.



How it would affect players.

The best part personally . You can potentially do what you like. From pvp even if its opt in to any epic in any clan. You can stay at home with friends. You can meet and greet. You can help other people. You literally are only limited by the number of actions that you can make a day.

Yes the lb will still spend the most. The same as they currently do. They will get the top prizes as they currently do ( though they may have to work a little harder between themselves for them ). But for every other player.
Your real life time that you put in will have a set value during events.
Your real life money will have a set value ( tokens ) in events dictated by how many actions the xtals give you.

A tril in silver bars means very little to a build complete player in relation to what it would mean to a mid or small player growing. Give them targets they can attain through hard work and reward them.


What about exploits?

The only exploit I have left out on purpose. By allowing items to be used a player for example could sit in a clan running the reckoning b2b and raking in items and tokens.
By excluding tokens from item stages. This kills that exploit.

Keeping pvp opt in also means that you cannot just pin an opponent an entire event unless they opt in and accept that risk, though without opt in it would open events up to an osw aspect never before seen.

Alt farming who cares. Set actions means you still have to put the time or money in to gain each tier. If someone wants to stop their alt gaining tiers hitting them. That's their loss. It's no worse than hitting an eb.
But it stops people farming osf for free extra rewards that they could not otherwise attain.

TLDR
1 action ( excluding items ) equals 1 event token.
Make events fair for all.
Make all real money spending on events have a set value in regards to event run during limited times.


UPDATE

After reading this post on page 18 I have to agree that this is an excellent possible first fix for event rewards.
It does not achieve quite the same thing. But it's the only other proposal that comes close.

C0ML3Y said:
Personally. I don't know which bracket of players I come in.


My account is close to 5 years old.

I'm no where near 100milcs

But all I can tell you. 15k is possible.

4K for 50 dos x 2 = 8k

Plus if you're doing wars. Top 5 in plunder win or lose = 300x by how many wars there are.

Also. Haunt/ destroyer are usually a lot faster than the higher tier ebs

But yes. It's a lot harder. Because the fact is. Even pvp. I got around 60 pre drop with bombardment compared to some who had 100 drop.

So it's hard to say, it needs rebalancing but it's need to provide more opportunities for people who is willing to put the time in. To feel rewarded enough to go for them higher goals.

So maybe only switch certain ebs to pay more.

The ones who pay less in plunder?

That'll mean you do well in the event or grow during the event.
Click to expand...


Currently asof /lotl pay essentially double the drops compared to AFF.
The haunting ranges from 80 for decent smalls actions to 300 for a bigs actions. But about half of the drops of an AFF.

Which means that there are currently two options sacrifice plunder and hit smaller ebs in which case the prize isn't worth while due to the fact you have lost the prize value in actions plunder loss. So that negates any incentive.

But player activity would have to be 2-8 times higher than those currently obtaining free level 13 prizes. To attain the same prizes.
That is unfair to me.

So certainly increasing the drops for all epics down from the top tier of ebs would have a positive effect on all smaller accounts rewarding their activity and expense far more than the current system does.
Changing the drops up to compensate for that huge difference in activity required would potentially add extra incentive to compete and pay for smaller players.

I certainly hope the developers consider balancing the eb item drops. Because this would balance the activity of players and to a smaller extent the cash value of in app purchases.

There are many players that cannot war for various reasons. Balancing the drops as a first try would make the game more appealing to all players.

Coml3y's proposal is certainly an easier system to trial

It would not totally have the same affect as the proposed system. But it would be a good start point to test over the current system, where from my perspective and that of others I have spoken to there is little incentive to spend real money ( especially since finding out some free to play players can reach top tiers in 3 days due to size alone and easily within the two weeks).
It also takes nothing away from those who currently can achieve free top levels.
I still feel my proposal is the more fair. But this suggestion could come close without causing as much resentment from those who feel they would lose out under a revised system.
Click to expand...

This was suggested for the eb series. But.
It has total merit for this pvp event.
Every complaint is directed at the ridiculous nature of drops.
Some players getting thousands of drops. Others getting next to no drops.

This system is totally flawed.
The devs don't think anything is wrong.
They are wrong. This system would have saved this event.
It would have made it competitive and worthwhile.

Those spending on xtals yes would still win.
The stupid spells. And that's what they are would not make drops even more absurd than they are.

Players don't need mains for this event. He'll make an alt and farm your main you will do extremely well in the event.
You will have a useless small alt with one good equipment and a useless main. But hey. Why would that be a problem?

This event is. It what convinced me to say what I'm about to.
It's disastrous to the extreme.
The drop mechs are beyond pathetic and players cannot defend themselves as they attain nothing doing so.

What I object to most is the feedback from support.
After years building various kingdoms on here. After years of devoted play and support to the game.
Their support to how do I compete when larger accounts pay less to my build than I pay to smalls. I bleed 1-2000 drops 4-6x per each inc bar. Each bar I put out I get one drop of between 20-500 ( one times 980 ) items normally between 100-200 items. And drops are rare.

How do I compete?

The devs response. Use more spells ( yes the ones you pay for ) like that's encouraging when you get next to nothing but seriously suggesting pay to win more drops. And out more effort in ( because I set my drops at 1-2 drops per full bar out apparently ). I am not wasting money on xtals for one to two drops.

So where does that leave me along with many others that I have seen and spoken to ?

Well the smalls happy hell one guy claimed a 10k drop. Great for him.
For those like myself that really wanted this event to work. That praised the devs for trying something new ( though assuming they would have actually thought about sensible drop ranges) where am I now.

Simply put. Disgusted at the waste of time this once fun game has become. Disappointed that pvp for so many cannot be rewarding.

When pvp relies on purchased spells and the drop rates don't work and the devs response is they are fine then there really is just one place left to go.
The kaw retirement village.

Been a blast due to some players.
Devs this was the last arrow through the knee I'm willing to take. Thanks for destroying another aspect of the game for so many of us.
 
Personally I think this is the most fun I've had in ages. Yes the drops are strange. Listing around 7.75% per drop when some1 has the x2 spell on is very punitive.

Biggest issue I have tho is the length of the event. 10 days full on pvp is way too long devs. Ppl will burn out too quick after the novelty wears off. I suggest maybe 4 days max around a weekend so that those who want to enjoy the pvp can and still have some sort of life.
 
yes this event is good moves by devs, many complaining because they not build for PVP just eb build, all just be hansel with no adt and bfa and cry when someone smaller hits them and taking alot items, just imagine if no this event and you getting hit buy someone smaller its the smae its just you guys not prepared for PVP. Same goes for attacking build with no sdt and crying they getting stealing from spies big guys. If you ask thuse with heave towers and not eb build in mid ranges they barely lose alot and get hit. Good job devs this will teaching lesson for not being ready as in kaw you can get hittinf or farmed by anyone anytime
 
Some players are Losing 20-25% of their drops per one action
The event would of been huge fun, if the drops were remotely reasonable.
As they are. When some players cannot exceed. Making 1000 max and average less Han 200 drops per action. To Lose 25% in one drop action their efforts are wiped out in seconds.
The Devs have totally messed up the drops beyond any reason.
Why it's reasonable that some players get drops of 2-10 thousand Per drop and others doing exactly the same get less than 200 or even as low as 29 items. Is beyond unreasonable.
There is no point to this event if your build doesn't drop in the golden window that Devs have accidentally made.
Sure it's a learning curve. But one that is destroying the event for many of us.
Cannot think of one reason to pay to play in a pvp event where you cannot hit back at those attacking you because they pay next to nothing while you pay them thousands.
And above a certain size the drops just drop off a cliff until you get close to build complete. Hitting players multiple times my size should also yield thousands of drops if the drop rate mech were even. And yet it isn't. Those much larger than myself have been dropping anything from 20-100 items.
Yes people have and cud to pvp and it should promote pvp. And if they had made the drops even and not paid for which is disgraceful as well as just impossible to work out much less compete for certain size brackets. All I can say is where I agree my suggested drop method months ago would have been ideal for all.
The Devs refused to fix hit ranges.
They added a pay for element that undermines all stats.
They didn't remotely think through drops.

This event will result in hugely overpowered equip for a much more limited few than it should have.
It has for days demonstrated the drops system is a complete fail and the Devs have refused to respond much less suggest a method to make it equal.

The more I here of this event the more I lose faith in the developers ability to remotely run a fair event that is beneficial to all players that participate.

And my earlier statement that this is pushing me to retire seems more apt now than ever.

When a game mech established that during a pvp event that you cannot benefit from defending yourself against those attacking you the purpose of building a kingdom to war with is no longer valid.
Attacking those who attack me is pointless. They pay nothing.
Those larger don't pay much for some odd glitch in the drop system, so essentially I am locked out of this event.
As I cannot gain from playing by fighting in a war game. As everything else is eb focused and rigged for larger builds in eb events this game has run its course and my decision is made.
 
Renamed101101010Imp said:
yes this event is good moves by devs, many complaining because they not build for PVP just eb build, all just be hansel with no adt and bfa and cry when someone smaller hits them and taking alot items, just imagine if no this event and you getting hit buy someone smaller its the smae its just you guys not prepared for PVP. Same goes for attacking build with no sdt and crying they getting stealing from spies big guys. If you ask thuse with heave towers and not eb build in mid ranges they barely lose alot and get hit. Good job devs this will teaching lesson for not being ready as in kaw you can get hittinf or farmed by anyone anytime
Click to expand...

Towers have nothing to do with the ability to fight back. They may help defend. But when you cannot earn drops the towers mean nothing. They defend nothing. Maybe you should realise their is actually an issue with the drop rates. And dtw is easy when you self pin. Doh. But when other players cannot earn during an event and use a build to pvp with. What's the point?
And saying people are crying when players like myself used to be farmers much of our cake time. Just shows you don't understand the game has flaws that go beyond a build.
Maybe understand the issues facing many players than just critics them for not having a build you do not. approve of.
If events aren't inclusive. Then we lose players. Just like me.
 
Tues maybe devs should cap the drop rate to maybe 5-10% of items they have and if you hit back (like revenge attack) let us take atlest 1/3 rd of what we lost no matter the size. btw if the biggers have proparbuild they would not getting farmed hard by smalles, last time all afraid to go spy buils because can be buiild easy and hard to hit eb, but not spy buils think they great because of bfe and during pv event like this they feel the pain.


Also decrese the event time maybe 4-5 days
 
The devs have most definitely screwed this event up. The structure of the drop rates is absolutely ridiculous.

Players spending time and money to earn event items and then having them taken within seconds, and then attempting to get them back only to find players constantly in DTW or earning as little as 1% of what was taken from the same player. It's ludicrous.

I sure do hope the devs aren't spiteful enough to turn a blind eye to this common opinion of a vast majority of the game's players.
 
Thank you ATA for this refreshing new style of event!! My only pointer is the equipment should have closer stats to eachother, other than that thank you again for getting kaw back at war!
 
llSllPll-LetHaL-RnGdE-llSllPll said:
Thank you ATA for this refreshing new style of event!! My only pointer is the equipment should have closer stats to eachother, other than that thank you again for getting kaw back at war!
Click to expand...

^From someone who opted out of the PvP:)
 
Yeah this could have been a lot better....not sure how the drops are structured at all. Losing 2k in one hit, retaliating and getting 43 is idiotic. Hitting above or below seems to make little difference. Sometimes I get 900-2500 a hit off BL on smaller or bigger players even if they have those garbage spells cast. Other times it's 19-120 without it cast...just some stupid half assed crap. Whatever.
 
Yea I don't understand drop rates either. It's a little disappointing when you get hit and lose all of the things u collected all day long just to hit back and getting 6. devs hate me so much they jinxd me.smh
 
Devs you need to examine the issue with small build with immense BFE i.e -dunmesswithyodadyson- being able to hit bigger build with small BFE and taking obscene amount of items.

-dunmesswithyodadyson- many very well be in the top 10. Nice promotion of growth there.
 
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