Incorrect Stat increases on ADT and SDT on new lands

Awesome great to see you Charlie hope the whipping wasn't to bad.  looking forward to the next update.

 

Honest thing would be 50 build tokens for all of us

 

U don't have any towers though lol

 

Why stop there? I propose BC for every player who has ever had any towers, in fact, every thought of having any towers!

#end troll

 

Hansel has always been the best build - in terms of both plunder and osw. It took kawmunity long enough to realize lol i don't think any changes should be made about that as it has been like this since day one. But towers should have some effectiveness for the money/gold we pay and for the plunder sacrifice. I remember when 3-4 adt could stop most attk builds even with decent bfa. Now all adt is good for is stopping an elven temple hansel with max plunder..lol

 

The hansel doesn't want hansels becoming less dominating?
Surprise surprise

 

Yes of course lol I enjoyed taking advantage of this build for all these years, why should it change? Just cos everyone else and their mother enjoy it now too? Lol on the other hand, there isn't as many attk builds around anymore so the domination u speak of is not the same as it used to be, on the battlefield anyway

 

This, everyone is pretty much a hansel now anyways

 

I agree Adi
The towers don't affect enough.
Most of spies go trough tower..
There is not enough tank these towers offer so i totally agree to your solution on how to fix this.

 

Hey everyone,

(Long post, sorry!)

Ok let's go over my understanding of the problem (without retyping too much as Adonis-ICE_MaCHiNE did a great job at the start of this post).

Adonis-ICE_MaCHiNE identified two things in the new building release:

• 1. When upgrading to level 11 you get 158.5 Mil CS for 7.5T. And compared to upgrading to level 20 you get 117.3 Mil CS for 14.5T. (ADT stats and costs used for example)
  
  2. ADT (and to a lesser extend SDT) increase in CS per upgrade is inconsistent. (for ADT when upgrading to level 19 you pay 13.0T for 25Mil CS)

Let's go over these two main things in tern (let me know if I left out something important that you think we should be talking about as well!)

1. To talk about this I think the best way to phrase it is the idea of diminishing returns and Cost per CS.

(Sorry if this comes across as redundant as you all probably intuitively get this)

Mariem Websters defines Diminishing returns as... just kidding.

But diminishing returns is essentially as you do one things a lot, you sometimes start to get less for it. It is introduced with this building release to prevent compounding 'player gaps'. By making the latest levels less efficient then previous upgrades in CS for example, we slow the marginal increase of these values and people who are not yet LCBC can get closer to those who are at a faster rate then they move away.

This leads into Cost per CS of the later upgrades. This is what leads to some earlier levels providing X CS while the later upgrades only give X-Y.

If we look at the values for ADT we currently see this:

• Cost per CS
  Level 11 = 47,318.63
  Level 12 = 46,002.83
  Level 13 = 59,437.52
  Level 14 = 63,849.25
  Level 15 = 68,504.94
  Level 16 = 155,915.69
  Level 17 = 86,834.36
  Level 18 = 85,473.20
  Level 19 = 513,714.49
  Level 20 = 123,639.86

We still see some glaring issues with the numbers here, but the concept is being applied (just poorly). Although the fact that at level 11 compared to level 20 you get less CS is not something I completely don't like, the way at which it is applied does not look to be correct.

All that to say for issue 1: It is not a mistake in concept but in application it is not playing out right for ADT (and to a lesser extend SDT)


This leads to 2.

ADT increase in CS per upgrade is inconsistent and when graphing Increase in CS per Level we see this spikey graph with levels jumping all over. Worst offender being level 19, paying 13T for 25 Mil CS, or Cost per CS of 513 thousand per single CS (where the average for the building is 64 thousand per CS). Cost per CS per upgrade is also a very spikey graph in not a good way.

SDT also suffers from a similar disorder but to a slightly less serve degree. Worst offender being level 18, paying 12 T for 86 Mil CS, or 138 thousand per single CS.

This seems like an issue that slipped through. Sorry for that and here's what I propose:

An update to CS per Level, lead around the idea of updating a creating a new curve for Cost per CS per level.

Main things:

For ADT and SDT all CS values for level 11-20 is not getting reduced and in some cases gets increase.

Better apply diminishing returns and an increasing curve of Cost per CS.

Here's what the proposed values look like for ADT and SDT level 11-20 (costs staying the same)

• Attack Defence Tower
  Level 11 = 847,762,688 (old value 815,345,193)
  Level 12 = 1,020,443,665 (old value 989,247,538)
  Level 13 = 1,169,431,957 (old value 1,132,254,863)
  Level 14 = 1,305,140,060 (old value 1,277,127,352)
  Level 15 = 1,444,724,934 (old value 1,423,102,232)
  Level 16 = 1,556,307,431 (old value 1,492,049,751)
  Level 17 = 1,663,592,313 (old value 1,621,606,766)
  Level 18 = 1,771,233,974 (old value 1,762,001,647)
  Level 19 = 1,862,865,152 (old value 1,787,307,533)
  Level 20 = 1,956,136,133 (old value 1,904,583,631)
  
  Spy Defence Tower
  Level 11 = 876,770,322 (old value 839,162,678)
  Level 12 = 1,053,621,657 (old value 1,003,666,696)
  Level 13 = 1,206,208,113 (old value 1,138,359,693)
  Level 14 = 1,334,324,985 (old value 1,288,624,456)
  Level 15 = 1,444,913,563 (old value 1,389,144,177)
  Level 16 = 1,559,190,849 (old value 1,507,372,686)
  Level 17 = 1,662,425,088 (old value 1,617,368,113)
  Level 18 = 1,756,283,963 (old value 1,704,321,974)
  Level 19 = 1,850,128,095 (old value 1,808,160,875)
  Level 20 = 1,952,854,578 (old value 1,922,024,313)

TLDR check the above proposed change to CS values and let's talk about what you all think!

 

So a reworked curve and an extra 1m for adt at level 20 and 1.4m for sdt at level 20?
I guess I can dig it, would've liked some more, but I realise that's not realistic. Let's see what the others say

 

So instead of about 30mill stats maxed adt will give around 31mill? Maybe someone can do exact numbers? I get the general idea behind sts decrease. What I don't get is why had those towers been made so ineffective? Don't think 1mill will change that. The new breakdown makes more sense in terms of value and price. But effectiveness is of the most importance here. Happy to test before it's finalized though..

 

These diminishing, disproportionate increases on levels above 12 were designed to keep gap between BC players and aspiring to be BC close.
This work only if we are done with game progression. No more buildings, no more lands.
Charlie, by introducing non linear cost to value situation, you created a threshold too big to jump over once new lands/ buildings are introduced and current leaders just outdistance the rest of players, cause rest have to cross that bog of poor stat to cost missed idea.
So, you are telling us, it is either end of the road for kaw, or if there are new lands, old will be heavily discounted, to remove that slow down growth monstrosity. Either way, I foresee a discontent. It smells of a ripoff from where I stand.

 

I had adt for years, 4 on each new land. Was effective till last two lands. Why? Why couldn't it be consistent with previous lands? I can't comment on sdt as I don't usually have more than 1.

 

Considering there's only about 300 or so bc players in kaw right now, it'll be devastating to non bc players if new lands/upgrades were released any time soon imo

 

I like the idea of discussing them more. New buildings are a big deal in the game and it's something to talk about I think

 

You really don't need new lands. ATA have the option to introduce new building levels, or to replace buildings on one of the land expansions with buildings from another land expansion.

An example is the way HL work: You can build a T3 building there, or a T4 or a T5.

So on HF we have some pretty bad buildings...it would be cool if a later date we could replace those buildings with the buildings set from Abyss.