What does it matter? Can't we come on here and talk with guys like you trying to correct everything someone says? You guys are like forum nazis. Guess what dude. We don't care. We say what we want when we want and let you take it serious enough to attack our comments. You ever wonder why more people don't post? It's because of people like you who feel the need to correct everything said. It's better just to let people talk. We heard enough of you over the years.
Hydro, I understand that you have no interest in intellectual arguments and actual productive debate. Having to actually defend a position based on facts and logic is not something that you do, so naturally you would be against anything that promotes a real dialogue. But part of the point of having these types of discussions on forums is to exchange ideas, and test our beliefs and positions by facing other, and very different ideas. The exchange of ideas is hampered by intellectual dishonesty and false arguments. When people try to use these as persuasive arguments, they should be called out on them, and hopefully they will not repeat them. You say people say what they want and no-one should criticize them (the gist of the above). Well, in that case, shut up and let me say what I want. Which includes pointing out false argument styles and hypocritical positions like yours.
@ King Clam, you are so full of yourself. I'd laugh but it isn't funny. Is all you do is go around this forum insulting people and their intelligence. I remember you. You attacked me for saying we need to be cautious about using medical stipulation and gun restrictions. You said it not how it's being done. That what I was saying was a lie. Even though it was on the White House web page. Lol. Go ahead pretend you are some smart person, well you recycle arguments already made. Now what you want to talk about you intellectual giant you? Your posting is predatory at best. Nothing more. It's not your intelligence you are using. It's someone else's arguments. You just follow and use them. Anyone who's opinions matter already heard everything you are posting. It impresses young kids, but adults just think you are a asshole.
Here is what I can do besides debate on a discussion thread. Engineering. Material and personal logistic. General management. Organic farming. That's a new one. See I actually do help build a better place. Yes guys like me put roofs over your conceded head. We build the schools; the universities well you debate your life away. Which isn't a big deal. That's fine. Except you are rude,arrogant and have some weird thing that makes you want people see you as smart than you are. Which is hard to do recycling other people's work. That's all. Leave the insults to guys like me. It's hard to take you serous when you are insulting people. I hope you take this as constructive. It will help your posting.
I take it all back. The way to share information and ideas is through insulting others. Discrediting their intelligence, and holding my self above others. My bad. Are right King Clam. As usual.
Glad you admit to your argument style, as demonstrated above . But don't forget your propensity to mis-characterize other people's positions use straw man arguments when attacking them. Sorry that logic, reason, and intellectual honesty interferes with whatever agenda you are pushing. In this instance, you got upset when I pointed out the illegitimacy of a fake argument against the scientistic consensus that there are steps humans can take to help reduce our effects on climate change. Which brings us back to the topic you worked really hard to avoid.
How about discussing the miss information of actual temperature reading by improperly placed testing equipment for example you have a thermometer placed in the middle of a city it is always going to read 15-20 degrees hotter than if that thermometer was placed in the middle of no where why you may ask is because asphalt retains heat which will cause readings to be way off
@ Don National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Q1: Is the U.S. Surface Temperature Record Reliable? A recent study conducted by scientists at NOAA's National Climatic Data Center found no evidence that the U.S. temperature trend is inflated by poor siting of stations that comprise the US Historical Climatology Network (USHCN). NCDC scientists conducted this study to determine the reliability of surface temperature trends over the conterminous U.S. (CONUS) following photographic documentation of poor siting conditions at USHCN stations. A comparison of trends derived from poorly and well-sited USHCN stations indicates that there is a bias associated with poor exposure sites in the unadjusted USHCN version 2 data (relative to data from good exposure sites). However, this bias is consistent with previous studies documenting the impact of the widespread conversion to electronic sensors in the USHCN during the last 25 years because the majority of poor exposure sites were subject to this instrument change. Of significant note, the sign of the bias is counterintuitive to photographic documentation of poor exposure because associated instrument changes led to an artificial negative ("cool") bias in maximum temperatures and only a slight positive ("warm") bias in minimum temperatures. Adjustments largely account for the impact of instrument and siting changes but appear to leave a small overall residual negative ("cool") bias in the adjusted USHCN version 2 CONUS average maximum temperature. The adjusted USHCN CONUS temperatures are well aligned with recent measurements from NOAA's U.S. Climate Reference Network (designed with the highest climate monitoring standards for siting and instrument exposure), thus providing independent evidence that the USHCN provides an accurate measure of the U.S. temperature. https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/temperature-monitoring.php If you're really interested, this goes into it in more detail with charts. http://www.skepticalscience.com/surface-temperature-measurements-advanced.htm Local temperatures aren't something that can be kept secret. Anyone with a thermometer can monitor them and there are millions of people who have them. I have one outside that also tells me humidity and barometric pressure. No one is going to be able to consistently fake readings for very long. Someone's going to notice it.
Here we go again with believing the U.S government Once people realize the government will tell you anything to collect money on a new guideline or law Take this one for example a family in Florida built a house that is self sufficient doesn't need power or water to live in has solar panels and batteries that maintain the electricity and recycles rain water in a contained system totally off the grid house and the government is saying its against the law to live that way Keep believing your rights are protected by people who work for you
Just google improperly placed noaa thermometers and it will show you a lot of pictures where they are not placed correctly
ya i totally believe its the government and the scientists from all around the world who are all doin the conspiracy thing and lying and not the oil and coal conglomerates who profit from all this (giggle)
Right, because the U.S. Government (in cahoots with governments and scientists from around the world) has secretly been lying about temperatures in the United States for years and those of us with thermometers have been too stupid to realize it. And here's your "family in Florida": "Florida woman living off the grid forced to connect to city utilities. A judge ruled that it's illegal to disconnect from the city's water system Robin Speronis had her Cape Coral house set up for entirely off-the-grid living: solar panels provided her electricity, and she substitutes rain for running water. And last week, a Florida court declared her self-sustaining lifestyle illegal. Special Magistrate Harold S. Eskin ruled Thursday that Speronis is allowed to generate her own electricity, but must hook her home up to the city’s water system — even if they can’t require her to use it. Thursday’s ruling found Speronis not guilty of refusing to use the sewer and of using solar energy, but is holding her accountable for refusing to use an approved water system. Reasoning that she had been using the city’s wastewater system without paying for it, Eskin had the city cap her sewer until she agrees to connect" http://www.salon.com/2014/02/26/florida ... utilities/ They ruled the solar panels were legal, but she has to be on an approved water system and if she's going to dump waste into the sewer system she needs to pay for it. There's no government "conspiracy" to force people onto the grid. By the way, the city of Cape Coral filed the complaint and that was a state court, not a federal one. If the people of Cape Coral and Florida aren't happy about it, we have a system in place to change it. It's called Democracy.
The don why do you assume it's a government conspiracy? Even more why a us government one ? It's a multinational consensus of scientific opinion backed with the best evidence possible at this time. The USA doesn't run the world indeed the us government was slow to act on climate issues at previous meetings and summits on the issues. The European Union takes it seriously there are other governments taking action costa rica has been using only renewable power since I think the new year.
The atmosphere is extremely complex in its behavior. Because of this, finding the correct explanation for the behavior we observe is complex as well. Virtually all scientists will agree that a doubling of the amount of carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere should have some effect on the temperature of the Earth. But it is much less certain how or if we will recognize the effects of this increase. There are several reasons: First, the influence of a man-made doubling of the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is small compared to the Earth's natural cooling rate, on the order of only a percent. Second, there is a much more important greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, namely water vapor. Water vapor over the Earth is extremely variable, both in space and in time. Third, the ways in which clouds and water vapor feed back and ultimately influence the temperature of the Earth are, at best, poorly understood. Fourth, while the whole Earth is indeed in a state that scientists describe as "radiative equilibrium," where the incoming sunlight equals the outgoing infrared radiation to provide a roughly constant overall temperature, the surface is far from this radiative balance condition. Evaporation and convection processes in the atmosphere transport heat from the surface to the upper troposphere, where it can be much more efficiently radiated into space since it is above most of the greenhouse-trapping water vapor. So in short, it is this convective overturning of the atmosphere - poorly represented in computer models of global warming - that primarily determines the temperature distribution of the surface and upper troposphere, not radiation balance. Straight from nasa
It's not a government conspiracy though, one of the beetles band members wasn't killed and replaced with a look alike and the Luna landing wasn't faked. There's questioning a theory for it's liability then there's fools running around steaming conspiracy. You really want to know why it's just a big concern. People are only worried that the foil fuels are running out, huge areas of trees are cut down and the ice caps are melting. No one knows what's happening, all we can do is look back in the past and pray that it follows the same pattern. And that pattern says that the world will freeze over. Now you say the ice caps are melting at a faster rate? Drop a ice cup in hot water, you'll see it slowly melts but the melting speed increases as time goes on as the ice adjusts to the temperature.