I think the huge cultural differences between USA and Norway (ie: what motivates crime in either country) make comparisons of rehabilitation an apples and oranges thing... but imo a crime that bad deserves the death penalty anywhere. Some years back when I was still in college, I came home from closing a bar down (3am) and interrupted an attempted burglary. I didn't know the guy was in my house and he got the jump on me with the claw end of a hammer ...7 times. I went down for a bit, but regained consciousness and crawled to the living room to the gun hidden in the couch. He was upstairs and on his way down he saw me sitting on the couch trying to dial 911. Apparently, he didn't see I had the gun. He pulled the hammer out of his pants and ran at me with it raised ...I dropped the phone picked up the gun and shot him dead center. He went down. I passed out & woke up 6 months later in the hospital from a coma. 3 years of physical rehab (when I started to KAW lol) and another 2 before I could finally work again. This guy had been in prison before for a previous attempted home invasion and aggravated assault/attempted murder, but was granted parole... and was in prison previous to that. He came from a some what priviledged background too. I most def did not... ...If they would have killed this guy the 1st time like they should have, I wouldn't have had to go through what I did. Smith&Wesson
My argument was never about what is humane and what is not. I disagree with the death penalty and my reasons for doing so are not about whether it is humane or not.
I'm glad you are ok now (or I hope you are and that come didn't let any marks on you). Let me guess...that guy was rehabilitated once again, no?
I would assume the intruder was shot dead by his killed him the first time comment. Todd's story is exactly why I'm for the death penalty for criminals who commit harsh crimes.
Thanks Vlad for the most part I'm good now ...few minor long term health issues but for the most part I'm ok. Yeah like I said the guy made parole "twice" 2nd time for attempted murder & burglary. I just don't understand how he made parole the 2nd time? I mean crap if you get paroled once on a certain charge and you later later commit a worse crime you shouldn't be given parole the 2nd time ...especially on a crime of violence. Like I said in the 1st post he came from a somewhat priviledged family with money so I'm sure that had something to do with it.
I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that, Todd. It's a shame (to say the leaat) that the justice system failed and you had to deal with the consequences of it. Parole laws/rules seem really slack at times. I know where I live, there seems to be a higher number of serious crimes committed by people only just released on parole. They need to be a lot stricter as safety and the lives of others are not to be taken lightly, particularly if the offender was imprisoned for a physical crime i.e. sexual assault or attempted murder.
Yeah dead center (in the sternum) with a .45 hollow point ...NRA gave me a life time membership and asked me to speak at the convention few years later. They wanted to make me an NRA poster child. I had finished a 3 year enlistment in the US ARMY and was finishing up an Associates degree when it happened ...the plan was to get the Associates and go back into the Army as an officer. At the time u needed 60 college credit hours to be admitted to OCS. I was there man. I was accepted and 3 weeks later I would have been in OCS ... ...really sucks
I dont think so. There is a difference in killing unguilty and helpless kids or killing someone who decided for himself that he is outside of community. Noone forced him to do what he did it was his decision. In my opinion his own decision eliminated any rights of being treated like a human. He gave up his humanity not the society he lived in. For me people like him are just scum. A waste of any drop of water he drinks or the air he breathes.
This man does obviously have some psychological problems, how much did he actually decide himself? Would he have done the same if he didn't have psychological problems? Probably not. So how much of this is actually his own decision? And as I've said earlier, every human has the right to have human rights, what they've done doesn't change that.
You are wrong OP ..you have to act like a human to be treated like one. I'ld kill this guy myself if they let me. I'ld even supply the bullet.
I dont share your opinion. I guess everyone has his own "psychological problems". Do you believe if you hugged a.h. a bit you could have avoided ww2? I dont think its that easy. Im no hardliner-dont get me wrong. Many people deserve a Second chance. But this guy took ANY chances from almost 100 human beings. He didnt give them a Second chance so why give him any? It would be great if we could just "heal" people like him but i guess its a waste of energy.
Rehabilitation works far better than punishment. Almost 1% of Americans are prisoners. This rate is ten times higher than in the Netherlands, which has a very strict rehabilitation program and a much lower rate of repeated offences. This is a policy that they've had since aroynd 2004, and so far they have closed dozens of prisons due to not enough prisoners. However, it does anger me that there seems to be no punishment whatsoever for that man. I guess that at the end, and from an administrative perspective, the most important thing is to prevent him from being able to continue killing. While it may seem like he is getting a reward for killing, this form of prison system has been highly effective in preventing repeat offenses. So while it might not work for someone like him, it does work for many petty criminals
He has got 21 years, because that's the most it can be in Norway. I'm not sure 100 % sure how it works, but I know he won't get out of prison after that, he'll probably live there till he dies.
I also suspect he wouldn't survive long outside of prison, even in the political world, there is just far too high a risk of him doing it again.
Exactly. I think the mistake is all the prisoners, no matter their crime, are treated the same. But they need to consider likelihood of rehabilitation and risk to society. Even if he could be rehabilitated, the risk of releasing him would be way too high. Valuing rehabilitation over punishment is good but they have to be realistic. Resources should be put towards repeat/first time offenders for minor crimes. He is a mass murderer. He shouldn't have a cell that is essentially the same as having your own small apartment. Rehabilitation resources and times should be put to those who it can actually make a difference for. As for 22 years, is that for the 77 murders in total or is 22 years per victim?
He has got 21 years in total, that's the most it can be in Norway. However, he'll never get out of the prison, as it will be in danger for both him and the society.
According to Wikipedia he is confirmed to have a mental disorder. This seems to have been a problem with Norway's mental health system rather than just the justice system. Whether or not there was a death penalty, the crime would have still happened. Based on the fact that he has mental issues, I think it's reasonable for him to be placed in a mental institution or at least be under supervision for the rest of his life after prison, or simply kept in prison for his own and for society's safety. And that makes sense chocolate. What do you mean by 21 years in jail, yet at the same time you say he will never be released from prison? What will happen after 21 years?
Unfortunately, plenty of people have narcissistic personality disorder, and they don't go around killing 77 people. Personality disorders are also notoriously hard to accurately diagnose and frequently wrongly diagnosed.