Sticks and stones may break your bones and obviously words will devastate u forever. Lmao. I think rubber and glue must have been banned! Good thing natural selection exists. Bahaha
I personally do not care what gender you want to be, it's none of my business. When it does become my business is when a grown man wants to go into the same locker room or bathroom as my daughter. That infringes on my life. What I do have problem with is the term "a society that Dosnt recognize gender" they don't want to be judged or told how to live but want to force their views on all of society? I like recognizing gender, I like there being men and women not a society of its. It is my right to recognize gender as much as it is yours not to. So why should "society" not recognize gender? Stick to your own mottos and be open minded, don't try to force society to be how you want it. If you don't want to recognize genders that's fine, leave society out of it.
Personally, I think humans, or at least some, have a need to label things. It's easier to deal with something, categorize it or put it aside if we can attach a label to it. Humans can't just...be. Female and males labels are so far integrated into our society it is virtually impossible to remove them. For example, toilets, girl only and boy only schools and having to tick a gender when filling out a form. Now consider the world of today. There is awareness about being transgender, about being gay, about not identifying with either gender. I don't believe it has ever been more prevalent than it is in todays society. But all this awareness, knowledge we didn't have or weren't aware existed, no longer fits into the old social norms. And we freak out. Us as humans don't know how to deal with this change. Some people couldn't care less because it doesn't effect them. We have passionate supporters on both sides of the argument. So what's the middle ground? The simple answer is, there isn't one. Either way somebody is going to be displeased about how gender is classified and categorized. How's the saying go? You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. I can only think of one solution and even this is only a solution in an ideal and perfect community (i.e. not ours). Be civil. Be tolerable. Accept others differing views. Be respectful. That applies to EVERYONE. It doesn't matter whether you're trans, homosexual or heterosexual. It doesn't matter whether you hate homosexuals or you are one. Everyone has different opinions. But you can still accept other peoples opinions and be civil towards them. You don't have to like them, but you can still tolerate them. At the end of the day we are all humans. And we all bleed red. Treat each other as human beings. We are all different but we are still human. I might not agree with some of the people on this thread but I still respect your opinion. And I hope many of you can say the same to each other. Take the time to understand each other. At the end of the day this isn't even a solution in the slightest, but I think it's a step in the right direction.
The thing about opinions is everyone has them. It's our right to accept or reject others opinions. You go preach the same thing passionately to the group(s) you defend and you might gain some ground amongst the majority of your peers, instead of just a few. A great many of us "breeders" are tired of listening to the same old record spinning. I agree that at the end of the day we're all human, and we all deserve to be treated as such.
Yes everyone has opinions. Feel free to accept and reject any you like. When I said accept, I meant it in the sense that accept that that IS my opinion not that you actually had to accept/agree with what I was saying. Basically if everyone could understand we all have differing views on things, the world would be a better place. Unfortunately some humans like to be violent, be hateful, discriminative and try to deny others their right simply because they do not agree. And in my view, that is not good enough. The central point is we all deserve to be treated as humans because we are all humans, no matter our differences. Debates and disagreements can actually be really beneficial because it gives anyone a chance to try and understand the opposing side. We can question each other. Through questioning we can gain answers, maybe undedrstanding and some insight. And that's all I ask really, is you understand it is my opinion and my life. Just as I understand that others have their own opinion.
Then keep it "your life" and rather than create hostility with cake makers and priests who you KNOW don't share your values or opinions or lifestyle, go find a talented individual amongst your proprietary little group. And I am personally aware that there is vast talent among the LGBT community. Stop being so damned confrontational, and then crying to the judicial powers who are stuck in the position to defend you, whether they like it or not. By those actions and behaviors, your community is alienating itself from further acceptance. Still, there will always be some (myself included) who will ONLY accept the rights of anyone as HUMAN RIGHTS.
Funny how everyone only addresses if a "man" wants to go to the "women's room" looks like they would be fine with a women using the mans room not like anyone has sons that could be sexually assaulted also considering a lot of those who sexually assult kids don't care about the gender might as well make rooms for youg. Boys and girls
So I should just be ok with my daughter changing out in the bathroom at the ymca and a 45 year old man walking in bc he says he identifies as a woman. Or should be OK with her using the bathroom in Walmart and a man turns around from urinal exposing his junk to her? I should have to explain that to an 8 year old? Just so you all can win this little victory about not being told what restroom to use I should have to deal with these things? Your freedom cannot infringe upon mine, sorry.
Need a bigger strawman because thst was not the point I was pushing, but if you ask me we can do what we always do if weather or trans or not. If you look like a man use the mans room I'd you look like a women use the women's room if your a dude with a beard wearing a dress hold it till you get home. Also considering trans people generating take hormones are generally the ones thst go into the restroom they usually look like a women or atleast a ugly one. I disagree with just a random man going into the women's room obviously but that's a small percentage of "trans" people. But hey if a man wants to flash/sexually assult you slighter or son he's more then likely not going to go through thst whole ordeal.
I apologize I mistook your statement. I believe we actually agree with one another. But no if this stupid anyone using any bathroom thing the universal gender hounds are pushing ever goes through then that's exactly what we will have to deal with
No I completely agree but so far the only people we see doing it, target as a example people that disagree with it that are protesting it are going into the opposite sex's bathroom. There weren't to many before but so far they seem to like doing it lmao.
At the moment I'm not the one who is getting confrontational. And 'my community' is the same as yours because we all belong to the same community. I'm more than happy to keep it to 'my life' and in fact, I do. My personal life choices are nobody elses business. Yet we are in a state where my life choices are being infringed upon by people who have nothing to do with my life. It's a bit hard to keep it to 'my life' in such situations. If anything, people who share your beliefs are the ones stopping me from keeping it to my life. I don't see how my beliefs stop you from living your life. Personally Idon't push my by beliefs onto other people. I talk about it if the topic arises in conversation as it has in forums. Please stop making generalisations. What exactly does talent have to do with it? To be honest, I have no idea what you're trying to say at all.
LOL this thread is getting too long, I'm losing my point every time I quote. Starting with my being confrontational. I am confrontational now and yes I'm also generalizing, because I have personally reached my breaking point with the constant same rhetoric coming from the LGBT community. And when I refer to "your community", I know you know I'm referring to the LGBT community. As I stated earlier, I was part of that community by a few different social circles among the LGBT folks. I suppose my role could've been described as the "token breeder" accepted into those groups. I've partied, wined and dined among those circles. I've accompanied some folks to their "rainbow" shops and socialized with many who wished I would convert, and there were some women who tried (and failed). So when I refer to the vast talent among the LGBT crowd, it's because I've seen that many of these folks are extremely gifted. And I met many successful business owners. So among all of those people in your LGBT community, these people can't find someone who can bake a rainbow cake or sew a tux or who themselves aren't ordained and can legally marry anyone? Again, I shouldn't have had to explain all that given the intelligence you've displayed so far.
I understand what talent means. But I don't understand why it factors into the conversation. There are talented people in all walks of life, what does that have to do it? Are you trying to say that there's enough people within our groups that share our lifestyles that we should be fine conversing and being with them? i.e. while not everyone agrees with what I agree with, there are great people within my groups that I should be able to find someone who DOES share my beliefs? I'm sorry I'm not trying to put words into your mouth or anything like that. I just don't get the point you're trying to make about talent.
Main point: The members of the LGBT community who demanded that a straight bakery create their gay wedding cake and then sought "justice" when the bakery refused was nothing less than confrontational, intended to make a point to the straight world, and the result was the hostility they created. The bakery may have been fined, but that situation also caused quite a lot of hostility. Rather than creating that kind of hostility, that couple could've easily have found an LGBT-friendly baker to create their wedding cake. They do exist. That's just one example of the confrontational behavior I was referring to.
I'm pretty sure by now I've driven my points home in this thread. I'm exhausted by this topic. I'm exhausted by the never-ending rhetorical whining of the LGBT community. I've made my stand and have not been phased or impressed enough in this thread to change any of my opinions in terms of where I stand. And I've seen the exact same reasoning in this thread that I've argued in other threads elsewhere. I have nothing further to add to this topic here.
Oh I see. Thank you for the context. Well I can see both sides of the argument. On one side, they are a baker. They bake cakes. Someone is supplying them with a job, their beliefs don't need to come in to it. A cake is a cake. Then on the other hand, I understand that it can be difficult under taking any jobs that goes against your belief. But at the end of the day...it's only a cake. Both sides showed hostility, not only the gay couple seeking the cake. How far do we take it though? Today I won't bake a gay couple a cake because I don't believe in gay marriage. Tomorrow I refuse to help a gay couple who have walked into my shop looking for assistance. The next day I refuse to be served by someone who is gay. When does it stop? How much can we allow such beliefs to penetrate professional lives?
Well, I'm sorry you view the community as some people whining. I can see why you would think that. But I can say the same about the other side. There's one difference: my belief doesn't stop you living your life. Yours however, does impact on mine. It was nice having a conversation nonetheless. I welcome debate and any insight anyone can offer.