Judging by your rolling eyes, it sounds like you're not genuinely interested in my answer, but rather you're framing your objection to my opinion as a question. Here's the part that confuses me about the whole "homosexuality doesn't come about because they were misled as a child" argument. It's OK to expose kids to the concept of homosexuality as young kids because the theory goes that exposing them at a younger age will prevent them from becoming abusive toward homosexuals. The theory states that children will choose their own sexual orientation, and that sex education will not influence them one way or the other, but that it'll allow them to express their sexual identity "freely." However, when we talk about adults engaging in sexual activity with children, the argument is that "children can be easily influenced, so it's not right." Well, which is it? Can children be influenced or not? You can't have the homosexuality argument holding validity if the paedo argument is invalid. "Gender," as you're using it here, is a social construct used to enable the acceptance of perversion. Well then how you you define "abnormal?" Let's make sure we are all speaking the same language and understanding words under the auspices of the same definition. Not being straight is wrong. Homosexuality is absolutely an illness, and history proves this. For some people, their homosexuality is not treatable, but they can learn to live with the condition and function normally in society (for the most part). They're generally not a threat, so there's no need to treat the condition.
Chocolate, You better share your opinion in this thread and engage with us, bro. Don't just come to forum, dump controversy, and run. Makes you look like a damn troll, bro. Sack up!
Oh I'd like to hear your justification for it, but I already know I won't agree. That is illegal. You can't compare the two when one is legal and the other is not. They don't fall into the same category. I was using not normal to be defined as wrong. That's not how I view it. It is not wrong. If something is wrong we should be punished or 'fixed'. That isn't how it works. We don't learn to live amongst all the other 'normal' people because we there's no way to treat it. It's not about receiving a diagnosis or anything like that. It's who we are and it not an illness.
OK - let's skip the disagreement, then and just go straight to you disagreeing with me and be done with it. Homosexuality is also a crime in many parts of the country. Society just decided to stop enforcing that law. Who knows which laws society will decide not to enforce in the future. Maybe you'll see couples of all ages and genders roaming about in their sexual freedom. Therein lies the problem! Miscommunication. It's always miscommunication. If you define "not normal" as being synonymous with "wrong," then I still disagree with you, but for a different reason. I'm basing my opinion of the "wrongness" of homosexuality on my upbringing and family values. However, statistically speaking, homosexuality is not "normal" from a purely numerical and statistical standpoint. Hopefully we can at least agree on that part. I believe it's wrong, and in my home, homosexuality will always be wrong. As long as I control what happens within the walls of my home and between my ears, I'll always view homosexuality as wrong. However, and here's where I think we disagree, I do not believe it is my right to tell you what to do about your illness. Similarly, I do not believe it is your right to dictate my values. Your values are your own, and there's nothing wrong with them as long as they remain your own. I draw the line when someone tries to tell me that I am wrong for holding the values that I hold. People are just different. I personally believe homosexuality is wrong, but that doesn't mean that I think you're wrong for believing it is not wrong or immoral. As I've said all along, I don't believe homosexuality makes anyone a bad person. I just find it immoral, and I disagree with the circumstances under which it was removed from the DSM. You see, we can both be right! I can believe homosexuality is wrong, and you can believe it's right, and we can both respect one another's opinion.
We are more than our biology as people. We have the power to decide who we are and what we want to be. I do not agree that transgenders are a "perversion" but I do understand where you are coming from and I respect if you feel that way. I hope you also respect my view that people in the lgbt community just want to be true to themselves and transgenders especially are just trying to be comfortable with who they are. I will not deny there are a lot of perverts who abuse others within that community but the same goes for straight people. The thing is, one's sexual orientation doesn't govern this. As for the bathroom issue, I can understand it from both sides. You're vulnerable when you're doing your business after all. I think unisex bathrooms are very helpful in that case. It's a tougher issue to deal with once kids are involved because we only want their safety and what is best for them. A parent should have the right to pass down what they want to their child so I understand the frustration of wanting to teach one thing but having society say another. But it's also frustrating to feel so trapped and unable to be who you are and to be so afraid of being oppressed, hurt or killed for what you believe in. No one should have to go through that fear or judgment. I apologize if my thoughts are scattered and disorganized but this is how I feel about this issue. That basically we should make room for each other.
@crazy....sorry can't quote all that. Your saying homosexuality isnt wrong and isn't a mistake... I have nothing against homosexuals. Have family and friends that are gay. But there has to be something wrong with it. Not speaking religiously, ethically, or morally. Put all that aside and let's say homosexuality is 100% normal. Nature itself defies it as life would cease to exist. If it's perfectly ok then it's perfectly ok for everyone and everything to be this way. And life as we know it ceases to exist. Animals only breed with same sex, animals die out... Let's just do humans, everyone becomes gay since it's fine and normal. So men only couple with men and women with women..... So we have the technology to carry life on as humans,so all reproduction becomes insemination? No natural breeding. This defies all natural exisistince, and is unnatural and a vulgarity and perversion of nature. I'm sorry, I sympathize with homosexuals as I care for the ones I know personally but I have to agree with cheez...it is unnatural and an ailment by the very laws of nature itslef
Not all of us BELIEVE what you believe. THAT'S the point the LGBT community refuses to accept. LGBT members whine and cry and throw pretty good tantrums because all of the heterosexuals aren't playing "fair", yet your community still fails to show actual PROOF that anyone is born gay or the wrong gender. That's EXACTLY like a Christian trying to force an atheist to believe that a God exists. It's NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! So do us all a favor and take your marbles and go home because you're not gaining any ground here.
I certainly respect your opinion. What a boring world it would be if everyone agreed all the time :roll: Such controversial topics are bound to get people fired up! But as long as we can be civil and accept differences then that's good. There's nothing like a good debate :grin: This time we will agree to disagree!
I completely support what you're saying here. There's just one problem. The gay rights movement started with the same desire - for society to "make room" for them. They fought and eventually they were granted their rights. Kudos to them for fighting and winning. But now we have a new problem. It's no longer enough for society to "make room." Now, the LGBT community wants the rest of us to teach our kids in public schools that being gay is OK. How is a parent supposed to let their kid go to school (mandated by the government) and then come home to parents who tell them it's wrong? You see? Now it's no longer "making room." Now, this movement has gone from cordial accommodation to usurping traditional family values. That's when it becomes a problem for me - when you start shoving down our throats and telling us we aren't allowed to disagree with something and have values that differ from theirs.
Ruggy, you know you're one of my favorite forumers. I still have massive respect for you, and congratulations on your 1000th post!
That's fine, we're all entitled to an opinion and belief system. We don't have to agree. It's just a debate and controversial topic. I don't choose resort to making personal insults when someone doesn't agree with me, though. Btw, going on your logic, you should also go home because I'm never to agree with you. I accept our difference in opinions but it seems you cannot.
I can certainly understand your point of view when looking at an evolutionary perspective. Homosexuality doesn't always make sense in that regard. But in saying that, I don't believe everyone in the world will ever be a homosexual. As it stands in todays society, homosexuality is 'functional' if that makes sense? We're not in a state that there is no one left to repopulate the earth. I think, mostly as a society, we've moved past it being unnatural. We can say that as much as we like but it is what it is. And the fact is there are homosexuals in our society and at the end of the day we all bleed red. And thanks Cheese, I didn't notice tbh :lol:
This is where I also feel uncomfortable. I have friends in the LGBT who are proud of it. That's fine. But then it crosses over to what is "right and wrong" and that is where it gets hazy. I have seen the people who condemn and judge people who don't agree with them and immediately label them as homophobic. I find that wrong. You have your rights as long as they do not step on another person's rights is what I believe in. And if they end up clashing with each other, like the bathroom issue, proper discussion should be made to accomodate each other. Everyone has to be heard. I'm technically part of the LGBT but I do not go around advertising myself as that because that is not the way I want to be defined. If I truly want to push for equality that means pushing for people who don't agree with me either because it's only fair. I live in a family that will stand against everything I am but I won't force them to believe otherwise because it's pointless. I think we have to learn how to take care of each other despite our differences and it will take a lot of patience and communication but it's what we need in the world. I just feel off when you refer to your beliefs as your values and ours as an illness. That kind of comparison is unfair to me but regardless that is your side to it.
You'd run and hide if I brought out the big guns chickie. Bug chasers...neglected kids looking for acceptance and finding it among the LGBT community always willing to accept new members and CONVERT. How much more should I expose?
Firstly, I was never claiming that every single member of the LGBT community wasn't influenced by something. Secondly, you didn't answer my question. Were you always straight or did you wake up one day and decide to be straight? I could argue a heterosexual was also influenced by the fact that the majority in the community are heterosexual. So which is it? You were born heterosexual but members of the LGBT chose their sexuality?
I believe sexual orientation is learned, including heterosexuality. Kids just copy what they see and absorb the values of those around them.