Constructive debate on scouts and their place in system wars

your op was wrong

 

I love those that say but we can't defeat a hybrid/hansel without scouts I thought the idea was to wrk as a team? B organized so the right builds are hitting those they need too!

Or do u all just hit away at will? I guess I must try that some time.... Maybe it'll work!

 

With the right build mix u can make a hansel useless in war ... That's a tested and proven fact ... But any of the changes u propose would then over power them again in war ... And this account as an Att build has far more towers then most hansels ... But the hansels that are willing to put up the towers needed to war properly are very deadly even in the new system

 

It's all about building correctly and not trying to save plunder in ur build that's why u have the edge to make up losses cause the only great ee builds have a lot of towers

 

im on topic.

nothing wrong with current mechs. scouts are a way to balance out assassination mechs. otherwise devs should allow attacks to kill troops as well as spies.

 

1. i was explaining how scouts are to balance out assassinations.

2. refer to one. original post is wrong because scouts have a bigger place in war. hence there is nothing wrong with the mech.

3. hansels already have a huge advantage, dtw to attacks when 0 gold is out.

4. don't fix what's not broken, imma stop replyin and let this thread die.

 

wow, use yours. obviously you have a comprehension disability.

 

#4 is semi valid but 3 is horrible it would help people strip u of pots so easly

 

I love the failed scout/sko on me when I was 3mil static sdt lol! Nothing wrong with sb'ing in war.. it's a tested balance within the game that most are comfortable I would guess.. see where this goes. ; )
And why not make a plunder build buy pots to scout lol... Xtal to eb, to war , all for equip anyways..

 

Scouting is fine as it is. It's that way for a reason. If it wasn't like that, attack builds would have no chance at pinning a big spy.

OP
All of your options are bad. Letting scouts burn SDP? You would need an insane amount of pots to last more than a day in OSW.

 

id personally like seeing stealing being useful in a system war, maybe steals kill spies at a similar rate that successful troop attacks do but the plunder remains low. If a low spy build is successful vs a larger spy opp, more plunder. Leave scouting as it is or allow scouting to improve your next chance of a successful attack.

 

Sorry if that was confusing, would just like to see stealing kill more spies, also att/hybrid coild still sb high spy defense builds.

 

Assas ko's pay a lot more in plunder also.. it's the balance that's already there imo.. Would be nice to see steals more useful too, I'd like if they didn't kill off so many of my spies lol

 

The spy mechanics in EE war are different than outside of EE war. If a change is going to be made to scouting it needs to be confined to only a change in EE wars.

Scouting was never intended to be a "combat" action, it was supposed to give you an idea of your chance against your opponent; however, the hansel build was never "intended" either and the natural progression/evolution of the game has necessitated scouts be used in a more combative function to balance the unique mechs of the hansel build.

Now some of you clever little darlings out there are probably wondering why the argument for spy def pots to be used when defending a scout hasn't been championed as the scout mechanic evolved over time into a more combative tactic....I think the primary reason it has not is cuz you can scout an enemy even if 0 troops and 0 spies. The result would be that you would have no defense mechanism left to defend against pot burners in osw, 1 v 1s etc. Bad enough when someone can burn your precious sdps while you are offline, but imagine staring at your phone and watching a clan burn thousands of your pots while all you can do is helplessly look on. I personally like this current balance and the current mechanics out of EE wars, and changing it would cause more issues than it would fix outside of system war in my opinion.

So yes outside of EE wars, it is true if a hansel pins (equivalent of zeroing attk troops in EE wars) it cannot be assassinated; thus, requiring scouting or stealing as your only remaining option to zero its deadly (or pesky depending on who u talk to) spies. Stealing is incredibly inefficient if the objective is solely to kill spies; thus, making scouting the prefered method to kill spies if dtw to assn. This mechanic also holds true with all other builds, if u have no troops u cannot be assassinated.

However, in EE wars, attk troop level does not matter as long as your opponent has spies. What this means is if a hansel build has 0 troops in EE war, you can still assassinate it. So for those saying scouting is the only way to kill a hansel in EE wars, you are wrong. Test it in your next war.

EE wars have predominately moved to scouts as a deciding factor, you can look at war histories to see it. It takes a TON of towers to have any real counter productive impact on scouts and we all know obviously they don't burn spy def pots, which in essence leaves you almost defenseless against a scout bomber using full pots. Coincidence? I think not.

This mechanic does afford smaller builds and attk builds that do not have many spy attk buildings the opportunity for more "successful" spy actions to combat those sexy big hansels; however, it also opens them up to be killed even easier by said big sexy hansels lol Oh and news flash, they don't really have to use pots to scout you, because guess what? They are big sexy hansels and in many cases don't need to since your pots and towers aren't really doing anything to stop them anyway lol If there was a chance said big sexy hansel was going to fail scouting you, it's pretty much eliminated by allowing them the option to use pots.

Most of us know any "successful" action will yield greater damage than a "failed" action, so yes I do see the appeal to many currently relying on fully potted scout actions in EE wars. It enables you to have a greater opportunity to do more damage to your opponent than if you actually had to fight them with an equal chance to defend using their sdp.

Trust me I get it, and prior to EE mechs allowing assn of hansel builds with 0 troops (this mech has been in effect since trial phase for the record), I was actually pushing to make them stronger because my hand cramped from trying to do 50 scout actions in one bar (even with a repeat button that just straight hurts after awhile). BUT, hot damn, I can assn a hansel in EE war even if it has 0 troops! As a result, it does not make sense to me that we have such a game changing mech in these EE wars that we can't reasonably defend or strategize against really.

I personally would like to see spy attack potions disabled when scouting in EE wars only, I think this is the most logical "fix". If u can't use pots to defend shouldn't be able to use them to attack. This is my personal preference/opinion, as I think it brings back balance while inflicting the least amount of pain possible to do so.

For those saying oh no! How will I kill spies if i can't use pots to scout bomb targets?! Removing ability to scout with pots still allows you to kill spies through scouts, you may not win as many but you will still kill spies. Then there is always assn if you want to use pots to kill spies and maybe increase your odds for a successful action.

For those REALLY clever cats out there, who are saying but wait Lp, you just said that big sexy hansels can scout us poor attack builds easily without pots and we have no way to defend against them, and are also saying you want to take away the one mech that allows us to be "competitive" with their enhanced scouting ability? I'm sure you are asking yourself if I have finally lost it lol However, while I haven't run any recent "tests", I believe it still holds true the most efficient way to "kill" someone's spies is through a successful assn. By efficient I mean number of troops you lose compared to your opponent per successful action. Prior to beefing up scouting power, a failed assn actually still did more damage than a successful scout; however, obviously that doesn't hold true any longer as evidenced by the migration toward scouting vs assn as the "preferred" method to kill spies in EE wars. If a spy understands the mechs well enough though, they know #1 an assn ko pays much better than a scout ko #2 they have the opportunity to do double damage on attk troops and spies #3 kill spies alone most efficiently assuming they are strong enough to win 70% of their assn. So the simple answer to that question and seeming contradiction of myself is, yes spies may seem to have an "advantage" still while utilizing the scout function, but in fact natural mechs of EE wars are built to make it an inferior method for big sexy spy builds.

Final thought, for those saying they need it to determine if they can "win" against an opponent in EE, I would love to know how/when you have time to look at your screen during an EE war and read your chances....if I did that I'd be dead before I got a hit in making my scout expedition for win chance irrelevant lol

 

LP is right on topic point... Read and learn.