Conservative. Liberal. Why we are what we are.

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Moose2, Nov 12, 2014.

  1. IMF - you planned well and played your hand correctly. I am happy for your success.

    Some people are raised differently and dont necessarily make it into the adult world with the knowledge you (and other good planners) did. Im not gonna discuss how/why that happens (but i will if you insist) - it just does.

    It sounds to me like domo tried his hand in the market and didnt make it for a number of reasons. I am not saying his failure can/should be blamed 100% on obamacare, but for some struggling businesses, it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

    Most small businesses do fail so domo shouldnt be ashamed. But i have to agree with IMF here that if government policies can put enough pressure on your business to crack it, then it probably wasnt a solid business to begin with. Or may not have been in the right area (as IMF said).
     
  2. Yeah, let's look at those points.

    "The first year Obama was elected I saw a huge shift away from the private sector. Executive order to increase pay checks which came out of my pocket on a then struggling business. I had to close."

    That would be 2009, when we had this thing called The Global Economic Meltdown going on. It was hard on a lot of people. But it had zip to do with Obama. The biggest culprit was unregulated banks. And I've never heard of an Obama "executive order" forcing anyone to increase paychecks. They're all on public record.

    "Saddest day in my life when I had to tell my business family that I could no longer help them. The insurance mandate killed us. Who got the waivers? Not me, only the unions did."

    Now it's the mandate that killed him, even though the employer mandate only applies to businesses with over 50 employees, wasn't passed into law until 2010, was originally scheduled to start in 2014, and was delayed until 2015. I also looked the wavier numbers. There were 1,372 applications for waivers. 92 were denied. Of the approved applications, 27 were unions. 315 represent plans jointly managed by unions and employers. They didn't only go to unions.

    So yes, Domo has points. They just don't make any sense.
     
  3. Your response doesnt match my quote
     
  4. Well said Cheese. Yes, I give respect to Domo in giving it his best shot and hope that he continues to look for new opportunities out there. I don't know all the specifics of his situation, but since he shared his story I thought I might share mine. Life brings with it valuable lessons - even in failure there is much to be learned. We just have to keep our eyes open and get back off the mat.
     
  5. His points don't match your quote.
     
  6. Actually, black, never mind. Your response does match my quote, but i now see that what i wrote doesnt correctly express the idea i was trying to convey when i wrote it.
     

  7. Well, let's talk about the middle class. Exactly what polices are conservatives pushing to help the middle class?

    They tried to block tax cuts for the middle class because they didn't include the wealthy. They blocked legislation to let students refinance their loans at lower rates. They don't have a health care plan. The Ryan budget was a freaking disaster and actually raised taxes on the middle class while gutting social programs and spending trillions more on defense. They pushed austerity during the recession, which actually held back the recovery. I could keep going, but I've seen zip from the GOP that actually helps the middle class.

    Keep in mind, I'm an independent. I've voted for Republicans. But I don't see anything from today's GOP that helps me, a middle class citizen. Basically all I hear from them is "Obama bad"
    and "Freedom good."
     
  8. Just because i think the democrat POTUS is a POS, do not assume that i support the republican party (or any party for that matter).

    The only politician i have ever supported was Ron Paul.
     
  9. But i do believe that obamacare has proven to have been more harmful to americans than it has helped us.

    The premise of the system fails. It takes supply and demand out of the equation and gives the healthcare industry guaranteed business.

    Unfortunately people thought Big Insurance would lower their rates out of the kindness of their hearts. Why should they? If you dont fork over your health insurance premium you get hit with a fee from the government.

    So Big Insurance did what the laws of supply and demand tell them they must do - raise their rates! Demand is forcibly raised to infinity by the government therefore prices must go up!

    They call it the Law of Supply and Demand for a very good reason.
     
  10. There's a reason why Ron Paul never came close to be elected President and the libertarian party has never gone far in American politics, or anywhere else for that matter. Their economics polices don't work. They're built on the flawed assumption that the "free" market will always correct itself. It doesn't.

    And don't get me started on Ayn Rand.

    I'm out for the evening. I'll pick it up tomorrow.
     
  11. Ron Paul was a natural extreme response to the ballooning government.

    Yes, the market needs some oversight, but our government is still way too big for its own good.
     
  12. My understanding is Ron Paul wants no oversight and all most no government .

    Disband the FEMA IRS FAA TSA a big tax break to corporations, rip the heart out of social security.
     
  13. I don't see how. The Republican party created the problem. And I'll show you how in 3 simple charts.

    The biggest problem the middle class has is stagnant wages. We're working longer and harder and our income isn't growing. But it wasn't always like that.

    Between 1947 to 1979, incomes increased roughly even. In fact, income for the bottom 20% actually grew more than the top 5% (118% increase vs 86%). The middle 20% saw an increase of 111%. From 1979 to 2008, income for the Bottom 20% DECREASED 4%, and incomes for the middle 20% increased 11%. The top 5% saw a 75% increase, and the top 1% saw a 169% increase.

    [​IMG]
    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... ually-pri/

    So what happened around 1979? Taxes.

    The red line is the Top Marginal Tax rate. How much the wealthiest pay.
    The black line is what their share of income is vs everyone else.

    [​IMG]

    Notice that the red line shows that taxes on the wealthy are actually low compared to the historical average of the last 100 years. The historical average is about 60%. It's 39% now.

    What's that done to us besides drastically increase the income of the wealthiest? It's created a mountain of debt.

    [​IMG]

    Notice how the increase in debt closely tracks the increase in income of the wealthy? That's because we cut taxes, which lowered revenue, but didn't cut spending. We simply borrowed the money to make up the difference.

    Notice the key date in all these charts? Around 1980. Reaganomics. It's a failure. It's done nothing for the middle class. All it's done is make the wealthy people wealthier and created debt.

    All these numbers are public record. The facts are undeniable. Yet Republican politicians keep pushing this economic policy. Why? Because they're either economically illiterate, or they really don't give a damn about the middle class.

    You pick which one it is.
     
  14. Excellent points Black. Checkmate..

    "Nearly two-thirds of U.S. companies and 68% of foreign corporations do not pay federal income taxes, according to a congressional report.

    The Government Accountability Office (GAO) examined samples of corporate tax returns filed between 1998 and 2005. In that time period, an annual average of 1.3 million U.S. companies and 39,000 foreign companies doing business in the United States paid no income taxes – despite having a combined $2.5 trillion in revenue."

    If the trend continues there will be mass rioting and martial law. When the greed of few pushes too far, the pendulum will swing hard to counter.
     
  15. I've never assosciated myself with either but I get called a filthy liberal alot :lol:


    You make more? You should pay more. Congrats

    You 16 and pregnant? Close your legs and get an abortion if you so choose.

    You like the same sex? Go bang em. Who ******* cares?

    You want to come to the "Land of Opportunity"?Come here legally or expect to be deported. Hell, idc how long you've been here. Get the **** out.

    What makes you superior?

    Your views mean nothing to the person beside you. So believe whatever you want and stop being a stuck up jerk.


    So many people think their views are better. My views are that you get your nose out of politician's ass and think for yourself.

    Eclipso out.
     
  16. Guys lets all be communists
     
  17. No thanks  One extreme doesn't correct the other.
     
  18. Communism is failure. Centralized economic planning promotes inefficiency and discourages innovation and initiative.

    Capitalism is the best system to create wealth, but like every system it has flaws. If left alone, it concentrates wealth at the top of the food chain. Like everything in life, it requires a balance.
     
  19. I saw a news story that something like 4b dollars was spent on publicity for the mid term elections.
    Surely the amounts of money being spent on elections is corrupting the very nature of a democratic election ?
     
  20. Indeed. It's like we're entering a second gilded age.

    which is both bad and good.