Conservative. Liberal. Why we are what we are.

Hulk the super-reader! Reads the entire thread and replies in one minutes. So cool!

 

Moose on marriage it's something that only should matter to the two people getting married it's really not anyone else's concern.
If they are consenting adults who want to show their love for each other in a clear and demonstrative way, what does it matter what the gender or orientation of the people is?
If everyone is equal then surely we all have the same rights as anyone else?
Shouldn't they be given the same benefits and responsibility as any other loving couple?
No need to change any names just let them be married if they want were they want same as everyone else.

 

Did you even read the study? Or just search for a web page that you agreed with? This is how they ranked intelligence:

I wouldn't call that an intelligence test. Now if they had given (13 yr old kids mind you, which can you really base intelligence off a teenager? Study college students) a test more like the SAT(a test to directly test your intelligence) the study might have more pull, but instead they played a game with shapes and words. Also the questions asked either were looking for a certain answer, or had nothing to do with anything. Lastly, you did notice that this study was done in Britain right? Their right wing is different from the USA's.

 

What about the Green Party?

 

I disagree.

I think Mill was referring to the ideology, not a party. Mill was first and foremost a philosopher. I'm aware he had Libertarian views, but Mills ideology was essentially Liberalism. But this goes to your point about labels. Left and Right by themselves are too simplistic. It's much more accurate to measure where someone is on a political compass.


http://www.politicalcompass.org/index

 

The Conservatives or Tories were then and are still a British political party. That was who he was referring too as mill was a member of the liberals their opponents in parliament.

 

Pffftt.

Conservatives want less government oversight of business for the same reason crooks want less cops. It's easier to steal. In fact, conservatives LOVE government getting involved in business, as long as it's on their terms. That's why they're conservatives and not libertarians.

They're all for socialized wealth redistribution like subsidies, grants, research money, infrastructure projects, you name it, as long as it benefit the business.

When conservatives say keep government out of business, what they mostly mean is "Don't tell us we can't pollute and screw people over whenever we want."

 

I used to think Moose was a dork. I poked myself in the eye everytime he wrote a thread because I always read the whole thing.
No more poking myself in the eye!! The last few threads have been very interesting. I will be reading all of your threads with enthusiasm and an open mind Moose.

 

Did I say anything about liberal or conservative? Didn't think so. And government doing things to protect people and nature from the government isn't them interfering with business, it's them protecting(what their job actually is). Government interfering with business is them bailing out failures and them telling businesses what they can and can't do. There's a difference. Just like with freedom of speech, you can say whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt another.

 

Moose that would be a simple compromise, yes but at the end of the day the simple cry of individual freedoms and lack of governmental interference is meant to be a conservative rallying point. Do they want government just small enough to sneak into the bedroom?

Sadly while I can understand the religious objections some may have if a civil union isn't identical to a marriage in the protections it offers to the partners and standing in law for matters of inheritance adoption.
Then you are basically creating a two tier system that serves no purpose but to keep the issue burning.
Sorry I know it is slightly off topic still but it's a enjoyable and civil discussion

 

Well framed discussion moose. This thread has covered many things. I think it's less the actual issues and more the framing of the arguments that divide people. A liberal will call for minimum wage hikes while paying their own employees minimum wage. A conservative will cry for border control while hiring Hispanic crews to do their roof. Gay marriage could simply be called a union and most wouldn't care. Call it marriage and the war starts to push an agenda. Disagree and u are intolerant agree and u are a great human. This one I always laugh at. If I agree I'm great if I disagree where is the tolerance towards me. It wasn't long ago the KK K and Jesse Jackson said white and black couldn't live next to each other and live in harmony. My neighbor and I happen to be great friends. Any way as I ramble on the point is take a step back and take a different prospective on issues and one may just find some common ground

 

Detroit is the classic example of liberalism run amok.

 

Aaah. Politics doing what they usually do, making life easier to understand.

Obvious sarcasm is obvious.

Anyways, good post Moose. 

 

Well since this is an thread about why we are what we are and not a political debate really I'll keep my beliefs to myself for now and share what I learned in my psych 450 (I think it was that class) today.
those who tend to grow up and live in an area that is a big lumber,oil, mining, those type of business areas, are more leaning towards conservative(republican) and vote such way. That coupled with the influences of people close to you such as: your parents, friends, teachers, and any other family members, will help you lean one way or another.
Of course there are exceptions and people can be swayed off their original beliefs, if you present them with facts and let them make their own decision. I don't think anyone should try to force your beliefs unto another person.
also I recommend not watching Fox News or msnbc they are not the most reliable news sources. In my opinion the daily show presents you with more news than either of those sources, even though he is satirical. If you do watch those I also recommend you watch the other. That way you can get both sides and make up your mind on which you believe more. Or pick a middle point and believe half and half.

Sorry for such a long post lol just came out of psych and government on this topic.

 

con·serv·a·tive
1. holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

lib·er·al
1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

These are how the two terms are defined and there's a reason why they're defined that way. They more or less accurately described the two core ideologies. I'm a moderate centrist, but I lean towards the left on many issues. Here's why.

Historically, conservative ideology is almost always wrong and has done very little to advance human progress. Let's look at the record.

Science. The belief that the sun and everything else in the universe went around the earth. Or when medicine consisted of sacred symbols and mystical nonsense. All of that stuff was based on structured doctrine with the authority of the day behind it. Question it, and you risked punishment, or worse. Conservatives didn't change that. Liberal thinkers did.

The list goes on and on.

When people were considered property to be bought and sold.

When Kings ruled by divine right.

When women were unable to vote, own property or practice professions.

When people were legally discriminated against because of race.

On each and every one of those issues, conservatives were WRONG.

Pick any instance in human history when profound changes occurred that benefited humanity and you'll find liberal thinkers behind it. Why? Because conservatism by its very nature does not like change. It fights change. In society as in science, the trend is obvious. And it has a name: “progress.” Conservatives aren't progressive. Liberals are.

This isn't to say liberalism is always right. It's not. But it's been right a hell of a lot more times than conservatism.