Apple VS FBI

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Moose2, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. Could just be a media mirage. Maybe Apple will unlock the phones and destroy the process (program) but maintain in public that it won't.

    Or maybe I believe too much in conspiracy theories.
     
  2. The phone that is under question belongs to a not only DECEASED man, a DOMESTIC TERRORIST. Not only are those facts true...the terrorist whom slated innocent good American Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Grandmothers and Grandfathers without a cause, he didn't even pay for the damn phone! It was issued through the city for his job. The phone is GOVERNMENT PROPERTY.

    The phone holds information that could save lives, lead us to the plotters or ISIS co-conspirators of the attack. This phone could stop a future attack and potentially save you, your son or daughter, your family from a horrible attack. Why must you protest on the basis of privacy for a man who took the lives of so many? There should be no debate, the court has ruled and the court lays down the law of the land, case closed.
     
  3. I don't give a single care about that dudes privacy. You're COMPLETELY missing the point of this entire discussion.
     
  4. Okay cheese, let me simplify it for you. If you have nothing to hide if you follow the law, what harm does the FBI having the ability to get into a terrorist phone do to you? Are you a terrorist cheese is that why you're scared? I mean damn if it is not about privacy what in gods name is this discussion that I've so blatantly missed the point about?
     
  5. Since its government issued & owned; your right it may save lives as we all know about black ops' false flag attacks.

    Welcome to United States of Trump.
     
  6. There's nothing to simplify. You are missing the point of the debate. Would you like me to simplify it for you?
     
  7. Actually, never mind. Your condescending tone make it clear that you're not interested in being convinced.

    Feel free to wall me if you are genuinely interested in being convinced. I'm not gonna waste server space or my time arguing with someone who's mind is already made up.
     
  8. And in a years time if this goes ahead...


    "Genocide I'm arresting you for having a hair that goes left"

    "Quick boss unlock his phone before we have to release him"

    "Wow his wife is hot, lucky boy, let's steal these selfies"

    "And he's seeing someone on the side, I'm sure she would love to know that"

    You might not be breaking the law, but do you still want the police to be Able to just open your phone?

    How far is the USA away from checking any Muslims phone that enters the country? Do you think that's right? Do you think the forefathers of the USA would tolerate that?

    Allowing this to pass would pave the way for that to happen, would that please you?
     
  9. It has nothing to die with his privacy Apple doesn't care about his privacy they gave the FBI everything in icloud issue is once a hack like that is made it CANT NOT be unmade it can't be destroyed. The FBI wants the master key they didn't ask Apple to do it for them they want apple to give it to them. Once made its made its out there someone has it. Not bad it's only Apple and FBI don't think any of them would steal a hard to trace program back to them? There is also 2 company's those who have been hacked and those who don't know they have been hacked. 
     
  10. Apple wouldn't be making an "ios encryption hacking program" as most here seem to believe. They would be making an ios update that would make the phone decrypt itself. Alot faster, easier and would work like a master key for iphones. Unlike brute force that Macafee is offering. It would "lockpick" that individual iphone.
     
  11. The USA will never get to that state we are a democratic capitalistic society, we also have the 2nd amendment and the right to free speech. Secondly the FBIs request to access into the TERRORIST iPhone, where is that so damn outrageous you can't support it. IT COULD SAVE LIVES. It's no about your privacy they don't care about you, it's about preventing future attacks. So if you're going to quote me and give me bs about how the government is actually ran by alien lizards planning to dissarm us and take away our rights, and by the way if you look at my ten previous post I talk about how the government doesn't care about your drug dealer and your text or your girls nudes, they care about combatting terrorism and protecting the soveignty of this nation. Secondly to my knowledge this hacking tool is NOT REMOTE, they would have to physically have your phone to do anything with it, last of all if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. The government has had the same access to every single detail as they will remotely have since the patriot act has been around, relax.

    please quote this:

    It is not about you, it is not about me. This whole debate has nothing to do with any of us. This debate should be centered around justice for those many San Bernadino victims, whose lives were cut short by an evil who would care little about taking anyone's life. And that access to this phone could and most likely will save lives in one way or another. So please argue with me that the lives of an innocent human are worth less than your self-interest. The FBI does not want access to your phone nor mine, they want access to a cold blooded killer.
     
  12. Since when has justice for few at the sacrifice of many been a workable concept?

    You have it backwards, this would POSSIBLY help against terrorists, however it is highly unlikely this guy would have anything on his phone. This isn't about justice, it's purely about paving the way for future data controls, what justice do you think could be obtained from the DEAD perpetrators phone? He's dead already, are you going to arrest him post mortem?

    Terrorists aren't stupid, he will have wiped his phone prior to committing the act.
     
  13. Aplle devices can also be remotewiped by anyone posessing the icloud login info.
     
  14. Genocide,

    First, this isn't about terrorism. It's about the government setting a precedent. The justice department just asked Apple to unlock an additional 9 phones that are the subject of domestic issues unrelated to terrorism. So there goes that part of your argument.

    Second, if the government is allowed to search your phone on the grounds that it MIGHT contain information useful in stopping terrorism, they can (and have) used that argument to search everyone's phone (PATRIOT ACT).

    Finally, this discussion isn't about whether it's legal for the government to hack into your phone. The government has had this authority for years. While I disagree with it, it is the law and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

    The question at issue here is whether the government can compel Apple to be party to the hacking effort. The crux of this entire issue isn't about handing over information that Apple has on its servers - it has already given the FBI access to that guy's iCloud account. The key question here is whether the government can force someone to build something that doesn't exist in order to assist in an investigation.

    Apple doesn't have a way to bypass its operating system security. Apple has no plans to build such a tool. So, do you think the government has the right to force Apple to create something that doesn't yet exist?

    Therein lies the question. And the main argument that Apple has against the government. In order to build this new tool, Apple would have to create an entirely new operating system with the weakened security. Apple's concern is that if they do build this, it will set a precedent that will make it impossible for them to deny the use of that tool to other countries with not so great human rights records.

    Imagine, for example, if Apple built this tool and then Russia asked Apple to unlock it in accordance with their law. Apple wouldn't be able to say no because they built the tool once for the US. So now, political activists in Russia are now at risk of additional persecution.

    Finally, many IT security experts and civil rights lawyers argue that once the tool is created, it will not be possible for Apple to contain it. That a foreign government could force Apple to hand over the tool. And we can't control whether Russia or China does this and then the tool ends up on the black market. Now every iPhone on the planet is at risk.

    Can the government force Apple to build a tool that makes their products less secure?
     
  15. It isn't just people's personal information at risk, businesses are also at risk. If Apple makes this hack, any business which runs on or even has one person running Apple computers or phones, is also at risk to have all its informations stolen or deleted. For example, an emerging market may wish to destroy America's auto industry, or use the information on a government official's iphone to leverage them into certain positions. Apple's hack would be like laying out a welcome mat for them.

    Certainly, at the very least, Apple would be finished as a company for supplying businesses or anyone with any need for security or privacy.
     
  16. Russia and China are irrelevant in this conversation. A court decision against Apple in USA doesn't automatically means that Apple will have to handle that tool to China and Russia. Same if a court decision favorable to Apple in USA won't stop Russia or China to start their own law suits against Apple.
     
  17. Wow, thanks you for this post this sums up my thoughts exactly.
     
  18. That's a interesting angle to go from, whilst you're technically correct, if the exact same situation happened in Russia, and they told Apple to unlock a phone, what would be the difference between that and this?

    Nothing..

    That's entirely the point, if they allowed the USA but not any other national government then you could call it bigotry, racism or xenophobia, they would (not sure) possibly be liable in an international court then.
     
  19. Can't the FBI just desolder the NAND then dump the data then work on a way to decrypt the data?

    Edit: Desolder is kinda the wrong word, the NAND chips are connected via BGA, so they'll need a reflow station.

    Hacking a IOS isn't that hard, unless the FBI still uses dial up internet.