Foreward Yes, I recognize that this is a kid's tap tap game. I'm not an idiot. I recognize that. I don't care about your opinion if that's all you have to say. I see absolutely no reason why I can't have a political debate between unloads. Why is that such a threat to you anyway? You don't like it, keep scrolling. Nobody is forcing you to open my threads. I enjoy this game the same as anyone else who's been playing for over a year. Here's what I want from our KaW forum. Say what you want about moose, but he was here. Every day and on damn near every thread. Posting with his mod account. He would get down in the trenches with us on some of the most controversial threads this forum has ever seen. I respected him for that. But one major thing I disagreed with regarding his mod style was his over reliance on the lock. I'm not against locking a bad thread. If the OP sucks and isn't generating meaningful discussion, shut it down. What I'm against What I am against is closing threads with an excellent OP, simply because a small group of people derailed it. So you take a perfectly healthy discussion and shut it down because a small group of people can't behave themselves? And then people wonder why this forum is in the state it's in. How are you supposed to encourage meaningful discussion when the default mod action is to punish the OP by locking their thread, rather than deleting offending posts, issuing warnings and then bans for people trying to derail/troll/flame? Why do our mods punish the positive contributors by locking good threads and encourage bad actors by giving them their way? You might as well give a mod badge to every flamer in this forum because that's essentially the power you've handed them. The policing philosophy of this forum is antithetical to meaningful discussion because it empowers the bad actors. Conclusion I do not believe the forum has reached this state because the game is "dying." I believe it's run off and become a cesspool of trolls and flamers because all the positive contributors have been pushed out. I understand our mods get busy and don't always have time to participate in our forum. That's why I believe we need 2-3 more active forumer mods who understand our needs and can help keep this place clean (and no, I don't mean just throwing a lock on every derailed thread - I mean getting rid of the bad actors), so we can get back to having a vibrant, welcoming forum.
how; exactly, do you suggest we get rid of these "bad actors"? they are mostly alts of players that have no qualms about creating a new account when one gets banned, humiliated, or farmed.
I totally agree. There are some pretty good threads out there that end up getting locked because players derail it or can't have a civil discussion. Immediate lock rather than cleaning the thread up seems counterproductive. Not only does it shut down a good thread (and possibly discourage the OP from posting) it also just results in the players continuing to flame and derail elsewhere. They should clean up the thread first and hand out warning to the players disrupting it then ban them if they continue to do so. Locking should be the last resort not the first option. I agree with Word in that they'll probably come back on another account. However I don't think that's a good enough reason to possibly ignore the current account. Let them come back and they can be banned once again. (Also, can devs tell when it's an alt? I assume so. If one account is banned for constant derailing, ban the rest of them at once). We have quite a few mods. Rarely do they seem to make an appearance in the forums. I understand they're busy, both with their real lives and with moderating the rest of the game. However forums should not be forgotten. If the current mods don't quite have the time to deal with the forums, then there needs to be another forum mod appointed. One who is very familiar with the forums. Not a mod who only pops in every now and then to look a thread. Nothing against the current mods but maybe there needs to be one who has the time to be a part of the forums more. There are definitely a couple mods that are here a lot more than others. I think trialling forum mod again would be a good idea.
Keep banning them and deleting their posts. If they persist, issue an IP ban The key is to take away their voice and take the wind out of their sails by deleting their posts
This issue has become incredibly more apparent to me as well. Enough so that I preemptively embedded subtopics in my op that would keep a derailment in relation to the main topic. I did this so that WHEN my debate thread went off topic, it would not be locked and I would be able to steer it back on course to my main points. I shouldn't have to do this. I shouldn't have to guard my thread from being locked. Edit #2 I have frequently used the report action given to users but it seems that this is a broken feature as I have seen nothing come of it.
Although I agree that deleting posts works, I do not think an IP ban would do much. Also, I think that moderators are only half of the solution. Just earlier today I witnessed some noob make a thread titled "/inb4lock" comprised of only an apple emoji. I was going to pin him and post it on the thread to warn others but before I could it was locked. What I'm saying is that more forum engagement from a moderator needs to couple with a positive forum environment. If people want a forums to talk on they shouldn't let noobs like that ruin them. edit #2 I have tried using the report feature given to users but it seems to be broken as I have seen nothing come of it. Can anyone clarify what actually happens should I report someone for breaking RoC?
There are players who use their main account who are habitual flamers and who can't even have a decent discussion - even on debates or arguments, these people are fond of circumventing bannable offenses.
ordinary forumers certainly can't do what you suggest. so i assume that you want ata to reinstate the position of forum mod and for a few forumers be appointed to the job. 1 2 3 not it obvious campaign to get mod position is obvious
Yes, word. I also think it's pretty clear that most mods don't understand the needs of our forum community (no offense). I have a short list of names of people who I think could do the job well.
Not it! Seriously though, in response to Arkts edit #2, it depends. While mods can only ban for 24hrs, trying to make a case against some individuals for a longer, even perm ban is extremely difficult. I somewhat have a feeling as to the cause but it's just an personal opinion. Used to all it took was a few screenshots of a users post history as well as a nicely worded case against specific players to get them a long term/permanent forum ban. Now it seems far and few between that even that works, leaving toxic players to continue their indecent/inappropriate forum conduct. While I don't necessarily believe in over moderation, some threads need just that and some players need to be made examples of. Some players thrive on watching the world burn and causing as much of a disruption as possible. Imo if users are going to act like that then they don't need to be here at all. Period.
I like how op talks so politely about Moose like they shared great memories together... I also would like to point out that Moose made it his personal mission to ruin op's chances for mod. Can we all just take a moment to say a humbling and peaceful... Huh? edit:What I want is an even balance of funny/joke threads and serious opinion pieces THAT WOULD ONLY INTEREST ME AND EVERYONE AND I MEAN EVERYONE WOULD HAVE TO ADOPT MY STYLE OF ADDING A TL;DR FOR THEIR LONG THREADS. But that'd be a pretty unoriginal message board. meh
Interesting. Thanks for the response, Drgn. I don't think forums need to be over moderated either. I don't think this would be over moderation though. More like trying to improve the state of forums. Perhaps there needs to more 'drastic' measures taken. If players see nothing is happening, they'll just keep doing it.
Agree, Drgn. I'm not suggesting over moderation. Just enforcement of existing rules. It's not clear why flaming is against the rules, yet I have never seen that particular rule enforced. Flaming makes this place toxic and unwelcoming, yet it is rampant. I'm not saying we get all touchy feely about what's allowed/not allowed. There's room for occasional flaming, for example in war threads and etc. but statless alts and certain players roam this forum spewing their vomit all over this place like they own it, and it has really made me lose interest in participating in this forum. Agree with Ruggy as well
Posting to intentionally disrupt and derailing a thread is against ToU. Which begs the question of why it is so loosely dealt with at times.
Well, there seems to be a shortage of quality threads. I would agree with Ashes and Cheese. No one has attempted to derail this thread because many of the trolls and chronic flamers just ignored it.
The problem with good debate threads and the bad apples that shut it all down is it takes a lot of work to root out the problem sometimes and it's easier to pull the switch. Drgn and I were both forum mods for a good while so I'm sure he can attest to this as well. The thing with forum moderating is that it takes a lot more of your time than game moderating sometimes. You can sit in wc in between hitting an eb and watch for bypasses or spam, or you could dive into forums and spend 10-15 minutes looking for that one post by that one alt that someone reported to you. Plus, deleting/moving posts can be a huge pain in the ass if it's spread out over several pages. Unless I've been doing it the hard way, that's a possibility. A lot of mods don't use forums, never really did and never really will, and I'm fine with that. This is a sandbox game, and we're just players after all. I've always been a forumer so now that I'm back I'll do my part around here. That's just my two cents though.
Thanks, AV. And welcome back! I know forum nodding is a lot of work, which is why I suggested there ought to be 2-3 more, so it doesn't have to feel like such a huge burden for 1 or 2 people to shoulder.