So during this topic we are going to leave out SSJ GOD MODE (because GOD MODE is the combined power of multiple sayians, not just one on his own original power) and SSJ4 (because as stated by the original creator, the DBZ series was taken over by new ownership and did not fallow the real original series - disagree as you may on this point, it's staying out) Now, the reason I ask this question is because I am mainly curious what you guys think. As it has been stated many times before, Goku has been called stronger than Vegeta, but in the latest installment of the DBZ movie franchise, we see a moment where Vegeta on SSJ2 is claimed to have surpassed Goku, who at that time did have SSJ3. So with all that info, it seems like Vegeta has finally surpassed Goku. Vegeta did get extra angry when fighting Bills, which allowed him to surpass Goku, so I think it's fair to say what his potential has grown to. Do You Agree?
Thanks for the view point By excluding SSJ4 from Goku we also take that option away from Vegeta, who was also eventually able to reach that state (With Bulma's machine, but I think it's safe to say that Vegeta and Bulma together would have figured out how to more efficiently reach that state. In my opinion anyways
Akira Toriyama the creator of the series, intended Goku to be the strongest in the realm of the dead, while Vegeta being the strongest in the world of the living.
Goku always becomes stronger though when he is about to be defeated. I would say, it wouldn't matter if Vegeta was stronger. Goku would still win.
As a huge fan of the DBZ franchise I have seen a lot of videos and such based around this topic. I believe that in that moment where Vegeta's rage powers him up he does gain a huge boost but nothing that puts him above SSJ3 Goku. The argument that Vegeta actually is able to stand up to Beerus is flawed by several different points. Beerus uses appropriate power to the opponent he is facing. If he used the same power on Bulma as he did on the fighters she would be killed instantly. Vegeta gaining a large temporary boost throws Beerus off and allows Beerus' fighting level to be way below that of Vegeta's for a small period of time. This causes Vegeta to be able to take control of the battle although causing no real damage for this brief moment. We have seen what pure rage can do to fighters in DBZ through Gohan many times and this seems to have been used to try and make Vegeta a true rival of Goku once again however realistically the rage can only go so far and Vegeta can't simply gain that much from this rage to match Goku as he is simply just too far behind without the use of SSJ3. One final note is that the SSJ transformations are being phased out of the new movie where possible as far as I am aware so hopefully this will allow Vegeta who never got to SSJ3 to actually stand a chance.
That's a very interesting outlook. My question is, why did the creators bother to even have "Master Roshi" mention how Vegeta had surpassed Goku? In my opinion, I feel that if it wasn't needed Roshi could have just said Vegeta caught Bills off guard. There are so many different opinions, it's hard to know. I do think it's phenomenally interesting that they will phase out the SSJ stages, that would be nice for a change
the original broly is pure saiyan,still goku the one defeating him.vegeta just so-so fight broly with temp rage boost.i say,goku still the strongest.it just like in the samurai x,where is shisio much stronger than kenshin but still kenshin defeat shisio in single blow.
Vegeta has the potential to surpass goku, but he doesn't focus his rage into strength, more like hit-or-miss attacks and then that's it. If he could concentrate that rage into his attacks, he could decimate goku.
Goku>Vegeta Don't bring up the master roshi crap. He is so infintismally weaker than Goku and vegeta he couldn't possibly accurately judge their powers, and if that were to be true Toriyama could have made vegeta ssj3 right then and there. That was his chance, how could he surpass an ssj3 without actually being one? Perhaps he was comparing him to ssj3 buu saga goku. Also when ssj3 goku fought beerus it was like a sparring match, none of his friends were in danger and he wasn't fighting to kill, or was enraged. Goku is also stronger because when he fights he fights to gain something from it. He learns. Where vegeta wants to just get stronger. There's so much more, but I'm on a cellular device. I'm confident the masses could finish this lol
Vegeta knows he is supposed to be stronger and strives to achieve that title. Goku recognizes that there is someone always someone stronger than him and strives to take them down as a challenge.
Lets just say Vegeeta beat goku, as long as the dragon balls could still be collected he could be summoned back the injuries goku sustained from Vegeeta would make him stronger so to me it all comes Down to luck really I say it's 50/50. Nice to see some dbz fans in KaW lol
Currently Goku beats Vegeta, however I think it's likely to change in the next dbz movie, The Return of Frieza.