TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of 90+ pages)

Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

kaw_community said:

Season 5 Proposal

Major Changes:
(Read the full post to understand how these come into play)

Round Robin format (No automated war matchups)

Fixed teams of up to 30 people (rosters are 20 - 25)

Fixed match up schedule

Max CS cap placed on rosters

Single winning clan

No hit restrictions (see max CS section below)

Rounds will be Round War format, 2 Hours Long, with 2 Regens allowed

Season 5 will consist of three main parts:

Preseason

Playoffs

Season 5 War Finals

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The 1st impression for many was like:

Bad-Nikki said:

I think this is devs playing a joke on us to hype up S5… it has to be right? 
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Bob_Sacamano said:

Lol I see right through this bs.. People complaining about s5 but you're not ready ..so make a terrible proposal with tons of bugs to be worked out to buy time..  brilliant
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But the devs were pretty clear, though.

kaw_community said:

Keep in mind this is just a proposal at this time. Things may change but we wanted to open a dialogue here. We understand there are many of you who love being competitive and so we've designed this system with that in mind.
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Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

kaw_community said:

War Company - 30 people

Each clan will have 30 people in their War Company. Only 20 to 25 of those people can war in a single Season Skirmish. These 20 to 25 people are called the War Squad. Anyone who is not in the War Company and tries to sign up will get an error message.
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I couldn't quote everyone who complained about that but overall consensus is that 30 people for 20-25 warring is too small. It should be somewhere between 40 and 50.

Rissa said:

War companies need to be larger. Most people work for a living and therefore have limited schedules. Making a roster of 20 out of 30 is going to prove nearly impossible most of the time. I suggest at least 40-50 and maybe make war squads smaller as well.
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However, it seems we have been heard:

kaw_community said:

War Company size seems to be of some concern and there's a general concensus that it should be larger. We'll look into making that happen. With beta testing we may make further refinements as well to things such as war duration.
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kaw_community said:

War Squad (roster) - 20 to 25 people

The 20 to 25 people in a War Squad can vary from war to war, but these 20 to 25 people MUST be members of the War Company. If at least 20 people do not cast for war, the team forfeits. If more than 25 people try to cast for war, the 26th person will get an error message. They won’t be able to cast unless some else deactivates the spell and removes themselves from the War Squad. If any person would put the War Squad over the Max CS cap, they will get an error message. More on Max CS below.
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Many commented on the fact that having 66 to 83(!)% of the company to be forced to cast EVERY single war, at any random time, day or night is, to censure a bit: unrealistic.

unstoppableTIGER said:

- not everyone can war all in. Not everyone has time to war 2 hrs + the 1 hr prep b4 war starts. Season 4 was good because the wars lasted 1 hr and there were ppl that couldn't war til half way thru the season yet they did ok and got some prizes. Tons of ppl dun have the time commitments to war in a "all in" style.
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ALPHA_WAZZU_COUG said:

1) Please don't do random war times. We have lives (obligations) outside kaw, some of which pay for our kaw. MOST PEOPLE don't have 24hr in a day to play kaw.
2) Large roster sizes means fewer teams will be able to make a roster.
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Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

kaw_community said:

MAX CS

Every roster (not team) will have a max combined stats including BFA and BFE. Players will have to manage their own rosters. If a player would put the War Squad over the Max CS the they will not be able to sign up. A War Company must therefore be composed in such a way as to not exceed the Max CS while still allowing for 20 to 25 players to War. There will be no hit restrictions so teams cannot use them to compose a War Squad that is unhittable.
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Many players suggest ideas for Max CS:

Dalichae said:

(...)I would really prefer to see tiers. Tier 1- 75m Tier 2: 50m-75m. tier 3: 25m-50m Tier 4: 3m-25m. Bfa/bfe effects on cs can and should be taken into consideration. all players on ther squad must have the min cs for that tier. That will make it much more fair for us small accounts to war and it will eliminate the lb/sh rostering all together.
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Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

kaw_community said:

Season Structure

Preseason:

War Company is open to changes

War Squads can change between wars using players from War Company

Wars are 2 Hours in duration

2 Regen Maximum per war

No hit restrictions

War Rewards consist of consumables (xtals, mith etc)

Season Skirmishes are scheduled Randomly

Clans that forfeit more than 1 game are banned from rest of Season

Clans who appear to throw Season Skirmishes intentionally will be disbanded

War Companies will be in effect during the Preseason but players can opt out, which means the War Company is open to changes before Playoffs. During Playoffs, the War Company cannot be changed but the War Squad can. Once playoffs start War Companies are locked and it’s up to each team to make sure they have the right 20 - 25 people signed up.

Playoffs:

All War Companies play each other. Top 16 teams will advance based on wins. If tied for wins, then total plunder.

War Company is locked and cannot be changed

War Squads can change between wars using players from War Company

Wars are 2 Hours in duration

2 Regen maximum per war

No hit restrictions

War Rewards consist of consumables (xtals, SODs, mith etc)

Each team plays each team at least once

Season Skirmishes are scheduled Randomly in a random time zone (surprise, you may have to war in a bad timezone. Deal with it.)

Clans that forfeit more than 1 game are banned from rest of Season

Clans who appear to throw Season Skirmishes intentionally will be punished, repeated offences will result in the clan being disbanded

Finals:

War Company is locked and cannot be changed

War Squads can change between wars using players from War Company

Wars are 2 Hours in duration

2 Regen maximum per war

No hit restrictions

Rewards will be based on season position in the bracket

Finals are scheduled based on bracket

First Seeded team chooses timezone

Clans that forfeit more than 1 game are banned from rest of Season

Clans who throw Season Skirmishes intentionally will be disbanded (yes you read that right)

Only players who have fought (and performed a minimum # of actions) in at least 5 playoff Wars are eligible to play in the finals. Any player who has not met this quota will be removed from the War Company at their own team’s loss. These players cannot be replaced.

Players must play in at least 1 round (and performed a minimum # of actions) in the Finals to receive rewards.

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Vlambo sums up pretty well what everyone think:

Vlambo said:

This whole concept seems to make wars incredibly inaccessible. Randomly chosen time slots? So if we get stuck in one in the middle of the day we are going to have to call out of work, skip class, leave the kids at soccer practice or FF and risk being banned from the rest of the season? Most of us have lives outside this game.
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cantonesecannonball said:

Any war times for Asia/Australia?
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I thought that you especially would notice the intentional sarcasm of Devs here.

When you see

kaw_community said:

random time zone (surprise, you may have to war in a bad timezone. Deal with it.)
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you should actually read

kaw_community said:

You guys from ANZ/Asia have been annoying us so much, trying to have a decent time to war during S4, that we will now give you that time, and we will make all the rest of the Kawmunity blame YOU for it
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... Share the love... :roll:

Some additional comments on time and duration...

-lIlIlIlI-lI_Kemba_Il-llIlIlIl said:

2. Random times? U do realize that we are actual human beings with real lives and jobs and families and so on, very much like urselves, and we have better stuff to do than be on standby to war any given time of day? R u kidding? What is wrong with u people....
3. 2 hour wars? We have evolved past dedicating 2 hours to war (other than the hour before to prep) just for a game, and for how long? A couple of months or a month? Seriously, what is wrong with u? R u guys OK? The summer wars were 6 hours but it was a weekend so we made the time. Don't let that fool u.
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lIIl__Il_Anasazi_lI___IlII said:

2. You don't like random times but many in parts of the world not currently covered with good war times would like to see some love too...you have a better idea?
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Aaaaaaaaah, I knew someone would share some love

Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

kaw_community said:

Better War Rewards

We want to make warring more rewarding. For the next few weeks we're adding better rewards to off-season wars. For now, you'll have a chance to earn back health crystals if you use one, and we'll be adding more rewards in the coming weeks.

When each war ends, players who have used a Health Crystal during that specific war will have a chance at receiving the Health Crystal used back. Players on the winning side of a war will have a higher chance at receiving their crystals back, those on the losing side will a lower chance at getting a crystal back.
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This in an excellent idea/news, and out of nearly 80 pages, almost nobody acknowledge this, surprisingly. (Let's say that the rest was so BIG and disappointing that it put some shadow on the good bits...)

Just one question, why have a chance? Why not make it automatic? Since you need to use one to get one, it's not like you are giving away free Xtal out of thin air. And honestly, the ratio of Xtals used in Wars vs. EB, might be something close to what, 5/95?
Everyone would love YOU for that, it wouldn't cost you much, and it would be a great incentive for people to war, especially beginners who get their Xtal eaten in less than 40 sec.
Also, it would give a clear indication of who used/didn't use a Xtal during war.

For SODs, that's kind of you, but I'd much rather be sure to have my Xtal back, rather than having a chance at getting a free SOD.
If you don't know yet who to reward with a SOD, perhaps the ones with a positive KO/sko ratio?

Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

kaw_community said:

Individual Wars will not be a part of Season 5. They were implemented to make wars more accessible to all and they work quite well for that. However they don't make sense in a Season where it's all about warring with a specific group over the entire season.

We're going back to Round Wars for this because we see a season as a time to break out the big guns. Bring those awesome pieces of equipment you've earned and help your war company win! Remember, there's no matchup system, and everyone faces everyone. We've also got a Max CS cap for the entire War Roster, and we can look into the possibility of having a Min CS cap as well.
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This is most likely the most frustrating point of the entire proposal. IndiWars are, by far, the most popular wars and should be included

unstoppableTIGER said:

- lookin at all the war formats: round, primal and indi. They decided to go with the least popular format...round. Round is full of exploit - there is no way you can take the exploit out of rounds. Every suggestion to improve rounds have been ignored.

- tons of ppl with great builds (huge sdt and adt) had to beg to get a spot in a decent war clan durin s4. If these spots r locked up...they have nowhere to go. These ppl have stated that's why they prefer indi - they don't have to beg for a spot

- kaw is full of mids and bigs without bfa. They are now unwanted builds in war.

So who is s5 for
- ppl with tons of time on their hands
- ppl who are sh or lbs
- ppl already in an established war clan that has a big pool of lbs to pick from
- the 1% of kaw
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ALPHA_WAZZU_COUG said:

Participation should be #1 priority for wars.
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I bring it back here for you devs as you may have missed it. One of your favorite also wants IndiWars:

ObEsA_CaNtAvIt said:

It makes perfect sense to somehow incorporate the Individual Wars. Popular, always full, maximum participation, works well...why wouldn't you???
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Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

Interesting suggested ideas

Consider KO/sko in winner equation

-FortySix- said:

Consider plunder earned and KO/SKO ratio in determining the winner. This may also help in regulating lb/sh clamp down.
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Modify the plunder algorithm

greyire said:

As I have said since season two, the way to fix ee is to scrap the plunder algorithm used for PvP (and PvP only). The current formula places too much weight on structures and not enough on BFA and BFE. This may have worked well at the start of the game, but as BFE and BFA have skyrocketed due to overpowered war gear and enormous CS from all the new lands added since game launch. As such, it promotes a barbell war roster, stacked with lbs and SH. To cure the problem, you must cut it out at the root, namely the plunder algorithm.
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Get Rid of the plunder-based system entirely

xx_TOMMY_xx said:

Get rid of plunder based wars and make it points based.

You get x points for a ko, and opposition loses x points.
Sko loses your team x points, but opposition gets nothing.
Bonus points could be added for number of successful actions for each player.

For example, a ko earns your team 4 points, opposition loses 1. An sko loses your team 1 point.
20 actions earns you 2 bonus points, 35 actions earns 3, 50 actions earns 4.

This would mean tanking and aggressive attacking can be used strategically, and exploits on plunder pay out would be nerfed.

Could this work?
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A (pre)formated mix of builds to form a roster

TRT__Wesley8__TRT said:

I think the only way this can work in Round format is to have classes of warriors based on CS. Each team is required to have a certain amount of each class in the Group. Each squad must utilize a certain amount of each class not to exceed a certain CS nor go below a certain CS. Kind of like online Football, 1QB, 2 WR, 2 RB, 1 TE, 2 Mixed/Open etc..., except each class will be a CS range, 10-20M, 21-40M, 41-60M CS, etc.., Adjust the ranges if there will be a lower bracket and higher bracket groups.
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Handicap Wars

Man_In_The_Moon said:

How about using xtals as a handicap. Xtals are squad based not player based. So you start off with (2*25) 50 per squad. If you only have 21 players facing 25 they still get to use 50 each side. But each player is only allowed to use a max of 1 more than the average until they are all used up. If a squad wins a round next round they get -2 xtals for the squad. If the squad looses a match they gain 2. A squad which constantly wins (stacked) will get penalised after every win...
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Help everyone get a spot in S5

IlWARII__CHEWY__IlLORIl said:

To help with recruiting i propose that there should be an opt in to s5. Then devs create database of peeps opted in but not yet in a war company. I think this will help get a lot more inexperienced warriors a spot.
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War Rewards & Playoffs

l_l_l-CLOUD-l_l_l said:

Why not do a few tweeks to current format of s4. The individuals who get max level say rancor lv 50 or what ever you want to call it. Those individuals are divided equally into teams and have a playoff. Double elimination (have 2 lose twice). Each round you survive you get a reward then reward the top 3 clans a gold silver bronze meadal in form of a banner or something.
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Florence also had a few ideas, but her post is too long to be quoted here. You can find it HERE

Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

Most important suggestion

Here is a good basis for reflection

ST4T1ON_H1N3Y said:

There is only 1 fix for ee and kaw in general concerning pvp actions of any type

FIX THE OUTDATED PLUNDER SYSTEM
it's the reason any exploits exist at all and why Pvp in general sucks across the boards

1) A base pay for ee or minimum pay or even a static pay for all builds WILL NOT WORK... There would still be ways to exploit to UR advantage in wars

2) any kind of action based tally for war results won't work for 1 of 2 reason (1 doesn't account well enough for tanks soaking up actions and 2 would make all wars about who the largest most def heavy team was not skill ...again)

my humble suggestion fix kaw plunder situation and make it fair to all builds

First take pots out of the plunder equation totally .... They don't matter to plunder and it's only the difference between being a little harder to hit or not if someone is very close to UR exact same size ... It's outdated and unnecessary

Second bfe / bfa / cs (cs depends on current troop level) as its added together to come up with UR true strength is what UR plunder value should be based on (this includes a total value U are worth when being hit) .... Cs (current troop level value) bfa bfe = (value)

Third U plunder based on that "true strength" value as compared to the target true value .... With a basic top plunder and bottom plunder window based on UR buildings and allies ( Max ally plunder bonus) ....

Tsv = true strength value

Tsv 300 mill hits a player with a tsv of 300 mill (when attacker is full) the payout would be set at a good medium for his buildings including negative values of towers ...example 150 mill

Tsv 300 mill hits a player (smaller) with a tsv of 100 mill ... The attacker would get a more minimum low end pay example 75 mill

Tsv 300 mill hits player (larger) with a tsv of 400 mill the attacker would get paid on the higher end example 225 mill

This is for winning actions only Ofcourse and taking into account the target players current tsv at the time of being hit .... Lower troops = lower tsv means less payout potential

In other words easier the target less they pay harder the target more that pay

This would stop any imbalance of plunder in war or outside of war and would allow U to set hit ratios according to the new "tsv" making hit ranges in all Pvp more realistic and fair

P.s. This "tsv" could be used for all plundering actions including steals .... If u required all builds to have both types of troop buildings

Max "tsv" (true strength value) = full troops (with towers for defensive side) + Bfe (static) + bfa (static) excluding pots still

Min "tsv" = zero troops + Bfe + bfa excluding pots
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One glitch I can see in this plunder calculation, is that you can never plunder above your tsv.
Taking into account (instantaneous) CS+BFA+BFE, if your TSV is at 300 and your opponent's is at 400, you'll never succeed.

Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

For news ideas, look at TL;DR - Season 5 Proposal #2

Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

At last, a few names who also participated in the thread, sometime for the better, sometime for the worst.

-Silencio
-NightHawk
-SUF
-Led Zepplin (even wrote a song for the S5)
-RR-immort2
-Death69
-SORA
-NotTom (not that I want to include him, but he'll be whining again if I don't... :roll: )
-xXP_3Xx_IIlllIllIlll_xXP_3Xx
-Spilatch

And probably a few more that I forgot on the way.

In the end, the one who contributed the least is probably kaw_community :mrgreen:

Rep · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

Reserved

KoS_Muppet-Master · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80 pages)

Is this not what kaw community posted a lot of work to explain something that's been explained

Olypics · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80 pages)

KoS_Muppet-Master said:

Is this not what kaw community posted a lot of work to explain something that's been explained
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Look at my 1st sentence, it might seem more clear... Also you can come back in a few hours, it will look even better...

KoS_Muppet-Master · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80 pages)

So after 80 pages in one thread you going to go over it all again 

lllYlllUlllPlll · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

As long as I get quoted somewhere I don't care.

MrDucky13 · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

Very well done, this makes it a lot clearer as to what is happening. I, for one, greatly appreciate this.

ChazZ · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

Ty, this was greatly needed and can help the devs.

TweetyBird · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

-ChaZZa_ThE_ChaMeLe0N- said:

Ty, this was greatly needed and can help the devs.
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Nothing can help the devs but your money

Rikkimaru · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

cantonesecannonball said:

-ChaZZa_ThE_ChaMeLe0N- said:

Ty, this was greatly needed and can help the devs.
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Nothing can help the devs but your money
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They still don't know a Timezone outside of PDT

Sly · Jun 28, 2015

Re: TL;DR: An update on Season 5 - Summary (of the 80+ pages)

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