Solo Queue for EE wars v2.0 (v v long read)

Hi Guys,

Another week and another reminder that the match up is working, but not perfect. So heres a recap for me.

War1) Couldn't sign up
War2) 48v48 10/x vs 10/x (perfect match up) if every war was like this it would be fun.
War3) 70v54 3/x vs 7/x (bad match up, outnumnbered in strenght (3rd vs 7th) and in numbers (70vs54?...)
War4) Not particpating.

If the scenario in War3 Happens to you a lot then i think my idea below or a variant of it will solve this issue. At least for me i've fought 15+ wars being outnumbered by 15 or more and lost everyone with them. The number of actives or size doesn't matter, if you are outnumbered you lose. (My theory explained below).

Anyways I was going to leave this idea to lie, but since its so frustrating to lose to numbers again I thought I'll take another punt and suggesting this idea.

Everything in under the dotted line was sent to the devs already and I haven't edited it here. YOu see exactly what I sent. but I didn't get any feed back. So either the idea is:
1) Too diificult to implement despite all the other advatages it will bring
2) Needs refinement

So i'm throwing it out again anyways because i desperately want EE to be fun for all (both sides), but the number of "intense" wars seems to be less and less and number of the times I'm in the "1 action Ko" is becoming common. "1 action Ko" = do one action then you're ko'ed before the 2nd action you are Ko'ed. I'm pretty syre this is not the intention of EE wars.

Note: A few refinements right at the bottom.

E-mail below from this point onwards.
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Idea: In brieft allow a third pool of solo players to queue for EE wars to even up the match up system.

THE PROBLEM:
I think that the match making system is fine as it is if there were thousands of clans but since there isn't then we are seeing a problem where one size of rank between the clans can be tremendous difference. This is especially highlighted that in the new system you can no longer self pin and therefore it is extremely advantageous if one side has more active players than the other.

For example There was a 20 member difference the war and this really doesn't matter if its 30v50 or 70v90 (i have been in both), the was won in 5 minutes after the first round of ko's and the other side had no one to hit and therefore regened. We then spend the next 2-4 hours being ko farmed. Since many people thought we were going to lose, they didn't use pots and in some instances some people didn't even bother casting mithril spells.

This isn't very fun for the losing side who were being farmed from basically the first ko, but it also isn't fun the the winning side as the mith payout is low. no pot or mith spell usage. So it would be more fun if the sides were more even, for both sides!

'Even' being the number of 'active' opponents on both sides were the same. Whether they are active during is a different matter. You can you only measure actives as participants, not more this which I think you already know. I think there have been enough posts and feedback about how the match up was not fair and I think the bulk of reason would be this. There is nothing wrong with the match up system but to do with the low number of clans participating there is a problem with massive clan sizes between each rank

THE SOLUTION IDEA (broken down into parts)
I think promoting clans to war is still the key and at least from beginning the solo queue ups for EE wars should only aid to makes wars even and not to replace clan wars. Please read on.

- You have to be clanness to queue for solo EE wars (based on ASW2012 assumption). It would be better if we could queue from our current clan, but if that is not possible or if it is easier, then those people who queue solo need to be clan ness.
- When you a queue you get a news report in your feed. The message should remind these people that queueing solo does not guarantee a war spot. "You have been placed in the solo queue for match making for EE wars. Please remember this does not guarantee a war spot. Only joining a warring clan can. Good luck."
- If you join a clan whilst in the queue you are removed (if applicable)
- There should be maximum number of people in the queue to avoid congestion. It shouldn't be too big and if it is full then the sign up message should be greyed out or something. For my example Lets just say 1500 people are allowed to queue. First come first serve. The mechanism for denying further is up to you.
- <IMPORTANT> ppl who queue solo are NOT guaranteed a war spot.
- This solo queueing is used to make sides even if required. If all clans are somehow even then no one will be picked.
- provide an option to clans when they sign up whether they want mercs if the sides are un-even. Some ppl may not want it, although I think most will.

WHEN TO MATCH UP:
- To keep things as simple as possible I think the match making should have a 2nd phase. Everything that is done in the sign up and match remains the same. So the match making routines run and assign the war etc etc. Everything stays the same. After the clans knows who the opponents are then it should enter a 2nd phase of match making where you match the number of actives and take from the solo pool.
- Once the matchup solo is complete another news feed should be sent similar to phase 1. "Match making phase 2. Clan A has been assigned 18 people from the solo pool because the number of actives was 30 v 48"

If one clan is size 10/100 fighting 11/100 and the actives are 60vs 80. The war will in theory be very one sided. I've been on the smaller side in many wars its not funny and hence the reason for this long e-mail. In this case you add 20 ppl to the to smaller side from the solo pool. Thats the idea. It can get a lot more sophisticated later, by comparing the size of each player and so forth but for simplicities sake for now, lets just say one side is 20 actives down and they need 20 ppl.

How it works:
Here are some scenarios of how I think it might work and these scenarios happen a lot.

SCENARIO 1)
- there are 100 clans warring this EE war
- all clans sign up with no mercs allowed.
- there are 1500 people queued solo

RESULT:
- This will be the same as the current system where uneven match ups seems to occur.
- 0 ppl are picked and a news informs them a a match could not be found and a short message to remind them that solo queues do not gauruntee a spot only joining a clan participating in war can.

SCENARIO 2)
- there are 100 clans warring this EE war
- 99 clans say no mercs, 1 clan allows merc. Lets call it clan A
- there are 1500 people queued solo
- Clan A is matched up with clan B
- Clan B has 60 active people and CLAN A has 40 active people

RESULT
- 20 people are taken from the solo queue and added to CLAN A during match up phase 2.
- The other 1480 ppl have a news feed that they have been removed from queue along with the "you didn't make it" message ... in a nice tactful way.

SCENARIO 3)
- There are 2 clans warring this EE war
- both clans A and clan B allow mercs on sign up for war
- There are 1500 people queued in solo
- Clan A is matched with Clan B
- Clan A has 40 and Clan B has 60 ppl.

RESULT
- 20 people are taken from solo queue and added to CLAN A during match up phase 2
- the clan sizes are NOT increased to facilitate solo queues. (or at least I think it shouldn't to keep it simple). However please see last section in the FURTHER IDEAS section.
- The other 1480 ppl have a news feed that they have been removed from queue along with the "you didn't make it" tactful message.

CONCLUSION:
I think there are several benefits to make the wars as 'even' as possible. It is very fun when you are lucky and get an intense war, but i think that due the match ups a lot of wars are one sided. A few times we already knew that we were going to lose and people didn't even bother with mithril spells .... Or the other time after first K/O we just got K/O time farmed ... these are situations that you want to avoid.

I think the solo match up will have a huge take up.
- People will like to war or try to war, but can't find a war clan for what ever reason due to time/knowing ppl etc, may have the opportunity to war!!!
- Obvious losing side match ups will have a decent chance being evened up.
- Strong teams will now have more intense wars and better payouts because the other side is less likely to flop and give up because it looks one sided.
- More people will probably end up warring, which is what you want. More xtals usage more interest.

However this is the biggest point. Clans that can't field a full team can actually stay together!

Many clans that are coasting on the 30 active players limit tend to lose a lot because 30 activces is really small. This is what is happening with my clan. We keep moving to different clans each week trying to get even match ups where we aren't toasted because the other side has more match ups. If you can search the wars I've been in. You should be able to see that. With this option it means that we can stay together and have a fairer chance!

That sounds like a win/win/win/win situation!

FURTHER IDEAS:
This section were ideas that I did not include in the above skeleton idea because I didn't want to complicate it. but its more of food for thought for other potential development if it ever takes up.

1) Different Queues - There are small clans and big clans. So it stands to reason that there should be different solo queues (by combined strength) so you can add whats missing. If small clans are warring then you shouldn't be adding HLBC players. If big clans are warring then you don't want to be adding small players.

2) Have different sign ups to allow scale up of wars. Some people just can't find other clans with like minded people to war with. So give clans the option to do it when they sign up for war. Something like the below.
- A) Sign up for Estoc war and DO NOT allow mercenaries to join
- B) Sign up for Estoc war and DO allow mercenaries to join and DO NOT scale up the war. i.e. if its 40v55. Only take 15 from the pool
- C) Sign up for Estoc war and DO allow mercenaries to join and DO scale up the war. i.e if its 40v55. Take 60 into clan A and 45 into Clan B aka scale up the war. Clan space permitting.

I hope you take the time to read this and pass it on the 'thinking apes' behind kingdoms at war . I am also happy to really give this some further serious thought if it ever makes it past the drawing board.

Best Regards

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Other points from other thread

1) Everything is clan space permitting if you have 70 actives and 30 veiled, then you can't take people from the pool no matter what.

2) I think 40-60 is not the right solution. Being outnumbered by 10 is tough, being outnumbered by 20 is sure lose. I'll eat my pants if any won being 20 ppl down and there were max actives on the other side.

3) After reading my idea again I think that if you have been picked for EE wars in solo queue, then it could your responsibility to apply to the right clan. This means that although joining a clan is disabled in general it will allow players who were picked to join. Ideally it would be automatic, but I'll take this solution as starting point any day.

Well there you go.

Cheers

 

Reserved for any further ideas etc. Just in case innit.

EDIT: Just added some questions

20130115 Update - is it much development?
I think this is always the main question. Breaking down the idea i think it is a lot less work than it sounds as most of what is needed already exists in a small variant.

1) The queueing of names. This is new, but since its just signing up. It shouldn't in theory be that much work. :/ maybe a realistic number wouldbe 300 people rather than 1500.
2) The news feeds. There are new news feeds required when queueing up, and starting and ending of match up phas- two. This should be easy as its present already. It would only require triggers at the right time.
3) Deciding on who gets to go where would be a new algorithim for sure. Can't say how much work this is, but in theory the match up in phase 1 should have all the data already since it works out number of actives and strength. So the 'last' bit would be to compare the number of actives and act on it.
4) I think the tough part will be getting the ppl to the right guild once it has been decided. I guess its the same problem as All star wars. This might be where the idea gets stuck. I'm thinking enabling guild joins only for the selected people is one way, but an auto move of guild would be best. This I think is the difficult part.

 

Had a interesting war Hgl vs empire 80 v 57 ^_^. The difference in numbers and strength. Was too great between rank 1 and 2.

There seems to be less clans warring each week... This kind of strength problem will only increase more if the number of clans warring drop.

If this solution is too much work then restrict clan war size to 50-55...