Obviously anyone that follows forums and reads any of the war threads is aware of the large amount of negative posts towards the devs about matchups, roster stacking, GH/Sos1 and LB setups, etc. The current thread announcing S3 is full of them as well. However, is this really an issue or an issue that KaW needs to "fix"? Instead, perhaps folks need to adjust their thinking and planning/strategy to look at it a different way. Don't get me wrong, I know some folks are very frustrated and angry about it. Usually it's the "mid-tier" builds that voice the issue the most as they feel that they are not able to war given that clans only want either small folks or huge folks. So in that sense, it is an issue because people are unhappy. .... but it's not Kaw's fault and it's not something for them to "fix". EE wars are one of the few areas where KaW very closely resembles real life. EE wars are quite similar to what real wars were in the distant past. Modern warefare is difficult to compare as technology has changed everything. EE wars are just like war in medieval times though, when armies fought with swords and archers and defended castles and all that crap. In those days you didn't go to war with just archers...or just foot soldiers....or just heavy cavalry. If you did, you got killed, literally. EE rosters are the same way and folks seem to be forgetting that. There is a strategy to building a good roster. It is simple...but not easy. Just think like you're from those times. Your "leaderboard" folks, especially the atk heavy/def heavy builds, are your heavy cavalry. Your "mid-tier" builds, usually atk based, are you foot soldiers/pikeman. Your GH/Sos1 are your archers. Your large hansels/pure spy are you longbowmen. Now, if you were gonna put together an army in real life....you needed all of those folks to win a war. If you just brought foot soldiers, the other side's heavy cavalry would run them down. If you just brought archers, they would only last until the foot soldiers or cavalry reached them. If you just brought cavalry you'd do a lot of damage but eventually the pikeman would cut your horses out from under you and the archers would fill you full of arrows. You need all of those different types of troops to war effectively. So yes, in EE war you will see roster stacking. Just like in real life, if you can field more heavy cavalry then you have a better chance of winning. That is especially true in the smaller roster wars (11 man and 15 man wars) as the clan with the most effective hitters is better so you stack the best guys you can and the "mid-tier" builds kinda get left out. Now, for all of those complaining about the 25 man rosters in Season 3, they are going to be harder for clans to make minimums but they are the best way possible to offset the "roster stacking LB/GH" issue. If you have enough foot soldiers and pikeman (mid-tier builds) you can take down those heavy cavalry (large atk builds). Just because they tested wars with smaller rosters doesn't mean they should keep those. They "tested" them...and what they got were a ton of complaints about roster stacking. Why the hell would they offer them again then? In general, folks need to think about constructing a war roster just like you would construct an army in real life. For a 25 man roster you are going to need a group of large atk builds, large hansels/pure spy, mid-tier buids, and GH/Sos1. If you are not able to put together the army you need and build a war roster with ALL of those parts....then you might not wanna go to war cuz you're gonna lose just like real life. This is not an issue KaW needs to fix, it's something that each clan needs to put the necessary effort into building the army they need to win. Just like in real life, if you don't have the soldiers in house, you should go hire some mercenaries to fill the holes. If you don't build your army the way you need to....you can't really complain about losing. That's the most prevalent thing I have seen in all the EE wars. "We got a horrible matchup!!!! Blah Blah Blah!!!" Yes, every once and awhile there are some pretty clear mismatches. But not for the most part. In a vast majority of the "bad matches" I've seen it's not that KaW did something wrong, it's that the folks built a horrible roster for the war. If you show up to a 20 man war with 2 GH, 16 mid-sized atk builds, 1 hansel, and 1 large atk build.....you're gonna get your butt handed to you. That's not a bad match, that's a bad roster. So let's all get to work folks. Network, talk to friends, make agreements with clans to work together, etc. Get 30+ folks who all wanna war and have different builds. Then plan it out at least a day or so in advance and build a good roster. It takes time and effort for sure, but the best things in life always do. Don't ask KaW to "even the playing field" in some way just because you don't bother putting the work into building a winning setup.
This obviously carries over to in war strategy as well. Have a good general, war caller, tracker, etc. make teams of your members and use them like war. I don't know how many times I've warred with my large atk build with minimal spies and had the other side open with 2-3 guys scouting him. Really? Plan better if you can obviously see what the other side's builds are going to do. Scout hansels to eliminate their usefulness, assass low spy atk builds, etc. It seems obvious but still amazing how many don't do it/see it.
True punch, that has to be taken into account as you plan. If your hit ratio is too far out of whack though, you'll just get a no match. Building a roster with teams helps that. Set specific builds in groups to take down certain opponents, etc. Plunder is always an issue but there's strategies to maximize that too..or to minimize the other side's.
Yes and no knight. RH is very very good so they're gonna beat most anyone. But if you build your roster right....you'll never face them. Just build your roster with those things in mind. Keep clan CS down where you can, trim unneeded CS and builds that are duplicative. You get too top heavy or too many mids, and yes, you'll get matched with some monsters.
I understand where your going with the real life comparison but the analogy is poor. The roster issue is a real issue because the majority of kaw is mid builds. There is slowly becoming less and less mids in EE. With the GH/SOS build being able to hit mids and mids Makin crap plunder of a build that shouldn't be able To hit you. Ops argument is well Thought out but most clans are not taking a variety of builds. They are winning wars with big ATk builds and SH/SHt period. The issue is EE is becoming exclusive and there is nothing fair about that
@aries They have been in the past chaos wars, yes. We're seeing less of that with the 20 man rosters though and should see even less with 25 man rosters. It's simply too hard to get that many GH/sos1 to war that often on one team. There's always the anomalies but for the most part, mids should see a comeback I think. Also, better roster construction opens up more space and use for mids too.
I love how long the EE wars have been out and despite two seasons and the chaos wars and other off-seasons that the system can still be called the Estoc Trials after all this time
OP. You are missing the whole point with the LB/GH SH combo.. They can be koed and demolished in war easily, but they have no plunder targets. The small hansels will pay a max of 5mil a hit and very few can plunder an LBr. With that setup is takes no strategy or skill at all. We all know it sucks to outwar someone and get beat by an exploit. Maybe the devs have listened and adjusted plunder for s3, but not likely. Only real chance is to war small to avoid the matchup.
@cactus Yes but part of my point is that 25 man rosters are likely to keep the LB/GH setup a to a very small number of clans. You're just not gonna see as many which is why it's silly that so many are complaining about roster size and LB/GH issue in the same breath. And yes, keep total CS down in your roster construction and you'll avoid matching those clans. Again, build a good roster and you're saved.
U don't keep cs down to avoid lb / gh clans in that ur wrong U keep cs down to avoid clans that have no need of gh at all like zaft and warlor clans that stack untouchable lb with all larger cs builds if ur cs is too high u match these clans and get stomped because current algorithm doesn't account for bfa properly Then clans like bg and silver who stood no chance in those fights lowered cs using 30-35% gh and matched down a tier fighting clans that stood little or no chance against them (again cause the algorithm didn't account for the size of lb) That started a change reaction in all clans trying to match down till u had 5 clans now putting rosters together like rh and almost every other clan forced to us gh just to look for an even match All the while we had very small clans using gh in a very different way making it almost impossible for any mid builds to compete in wars at all It's very simply put devs let us down as a community not nipping this in the butt at the very start regulating plunder in ee tournament wars when the issues were first brought up and then again when they realized their was no way thru natural progression of kaw to repair this damage While wat u say is true to an extent it's simply not the case medium builds are dead in ee till devs do something to regulate the system it was no different in 29 man rosters problem is it will now be worse as more people figured this out thanks to the 11/15 man rosters ... The rosters will change again and become even more gh heavy in s3 as they did in s2 until devs are willing to really sit down and make a fix
@station I appreciate the well thought out reply. What you say may be true but not in my experience. We purposefully try to keep the CS of the clan below a max number, build a specific roster, and have managed to avoid those matchups. In prior clans that I have warred with, they did not build a good roster due to lack of options (ie. barely making min numbers). As a result they got a lot of those "bad matchups".