Simply I have been trying to think of a way to balance both events and clans to an extent in kaw. The how do smaller players compete and also get growth at a time when ebs are harder than ever but linked to drops And that some clans are stacking clans ( in the current system they have no choice ) with bigger accounts. Now during this latest crop of events I have noticed that most clans have raised their combined stat minimum limit from 50 mcs to 80-100 mcs. For asof and lotl This is done to speed up ebs and make it possible to hit the 15 k reward tiers. The issues this creates. New players are slammed out. Mids are now struggling to get in to hit ebs that just a month ago they could. The result of this is a lot of frustration. Players are unfortunately less inclined than ever to wait for that kind of growth when they are being told that they now have to suddenly jump up 30-50 mcs just to hit an eb they could a month before. This reduces the desire of many to participate in events. And that isn't good for the overall health of kaw. This is partly a player and dev created problem. The devs for linking rewards to the top ebs. The players for jumping up dramatically the stats required. This happened in ee wars and look where that got us with stacked rosters. I recently proposed an idea that had a 50/50 reception to balance the events. Some lb felt it would detract from what they get currently with rewards easily acquired and that it would penalise them. Smaller kingdoms felt it would give them a more competitive chance. So what if there was a different way of trying to balance the gap? Rather than changing anything else to do with ebs and drops what if simply we did two changes. So as not to affect the current leaderboard and what they can achieve I propose that a MAX limit of combined stats for a clan based on 100 build complete players be imposed. This means no one clan can exceed this currently achievable clan strength. So no real change that matters to the current strongest clans or anyone actually. But where it can be used to balance the game is to increase the clan member slots. Allowing clans that have smaller members to increase their members up until they hit a better combined clan strength. This allows a clan of for example 200 members to actually hit an asof or lotl causing no more damage than an lb clan could potentially and open up growth and events to those who are currently shut out. With current average mid clans on average having 60-70 full time active members what I envisage happening is two clans that currently cannot merge due to the fact they would have to kick 20-40 members to the curb, then being able to merge and complete ebs in 4 - 6 hours rather than the current 8-10 hours many take now. For the interim I would suggest a step up to clans of 200 members with possibility for more spaces if the idea where considered viable. It allows all clans to support smaller players and giving opportunities to those who would otherwise not get a look in. For example a leaderboard clan with 90 members could choose to support 20 smaller players that would normally never get a shot in their clan due to stats. Mids could carry far more smalls and newb clans could lure in many new players allowing them to complete epic battles and actually have a far more successful time in their early days of kaw, hopefully improving player retention. It would open up ebs that are currently ignored by small growth clans as their strength could be boosted significantly. This would give back relevance to many ebs that are largely ignored these days. This would also encourage clans to spread out their strength and have a wider diversity of member strength. With larger kingdoms abale to help support their smaller clan mates more effectively. As limits are reached then with larger players attaining higher strength new clans of strong kingdoms will be encouraged which will only make for a more competitive top end of the leaderboard. With clans being able to progress faster and offer members better growth and faster ebs this means it will not be so hard for the devs to hold off on bringing out new tier ebs for the current lb as the divide would no longer be so insurmountable, that they have to delay the growth at the top. Remember individual kingdom strength is not increased. As such the new ebs would retain their exclusive nature that you have to be a certain build size to actually be able to hit them and succeed in the first place. With the developers recent changes to clans and trying to encourage clan unity and more successful clans that attract players to come together I feel this suggestion not only fits that model but also encourages clan unity and gives players a chance to push for things that are currently beyond their limits. Also consider that fewer stronger successful clans would draw people in. No one likes being in a middle of the road clan much less a failing clan. This would give players greater incentive to come together to achieve goals. Current clan leaders the opportunity to combine leadership and spread the burden of the amount of work needed to run a clan in an ever more competitive environment. Just to clarify one point. The limit as stated would be based on 100 current build complete players strength to the max stats available from the most productive build model. This limit is already in place. The system may have to automatically drop a member if that limit is reached or a block on upgrades within that clan until the leader resolves the available space. As new buildings are introduced with future updates then so these limits would be changed to reflect that update. No clan would be able to exceed that combined strength. update To clarify a point raised. Some fear this would make average clans overpowered. So lets put this into numbers. Currently a clan full of 100 build complete players if they had similar stats to that if 1 or two on the leaderboard would be able to have a maximum of approximately 55,700,000,000 combined stats. A clan of 200 players my size would have a total combined stat of 15,400,000,000 combined stats. That's a full 30,300,000,000 less than a current lb clan has the potential of. A clan of smaller players for example newer players based on the 200 proposed initial limit Would have a combined total stat of 4,000,000,000 As you can see this system far from overpowers merging clans lower in the field. It doesn't fully balance the issue and it could even make a point that raising the limit to 300 would be more sensible. Though initially I feel 200 is better. Or even as sucker231 suggests 150 would even make for a good trial if certain clans were selected to test this. Another note. Based on just the top ten in sucker punch. If all were equal below which they aren't. Their combined strength would be 54,800,000,000 Now allow for this figure being higher than their actual clan strength when you consider. That with this system that would open up 12-16 slots for mids ( yes I'm going to use my size for a comparison here ) more if smaller less if bigger. They would have approximately 900,000,000 -1,120,000,000 stats to recruit from. Allowing for limited fluctuation down their ranks. The true figure would be far greater ( if anyone wants to provide their total clan strength that can easily be shown). Now imagine how much that would help every clan across kaw. Extra active players in every clan. More people in successful clans that have constant appeal and success.
I really like this idea. Nice work, Night! I feel the problem in some clans atm is they struggle to bridge the gap between running ebs like AFF and TS and suddenly jumping to ASoF. The difference between AFF and ASoF is a big one and as a result, many clans are losing out. Plenty of players jump ship to hunt out ASoF and LOTL for the gold and item drops while leaving their 'home' clan in the lurch and they ultimately suffer more overall. A proposal like this could help bridge the gap quicker. It could get more clans running those ebs. The only thing I think I'd change is blocking UGs or automatically dropping a member. Maybe instead, owners and war chiefs can be notified and they can't accept anyone else until they've fallen below the requirement again. Also, there should be a counter somewhere in the clan that says you currently have x out of x CS. This would also give a good opportunity for devs to increase the amount of clan roles and adjust them so more people can kick and accept to allow for the higher capacity of members.
Many thanks Ruggy The counter and notification to war chief are good ideas. The ug limit I suggested, as the only real exploit I could see was to get multiple accounts in that are under stats at first and then have them ug and push the clan over the limit. As such their would have to be an enforced block of some sort to retain the balance. Beyond that one issue, I cannot see how this would do anything other than create stronger more competitive clans. At every level.
Limiting clans on cs takes away from the idea of growing as a family. Small players should actually consider hitting ebs appropriate for their size. Let's make this clear. There are players out there who run b2b lotl and asof averaging around 10h per eb. They could complete easier ebs like aff in 4 hours or quicker no problem. For item efficiency the players are screwing themselves over and due to them failing hits or using pots they are earning less gold per hour. This is purely the players fault not the devs. I used to support increasing the clan limits with a max of 10 slots with huge costs. However I no longer do as it would increase the gap further and honestly your idwa wouldn't benefit small players at all unless they are family to the large clans or an alt. Big clans would just stack as many bigs in as possible then family and alts. I get you are trying to help smalls out but please understand small players can't compete with large players and in most cases wouldn't even benefit.
How does this limit clans on CS? It keeps the exact same max on clans right now: 100 BC players. That's the max, is it not? The LB clans already stack in as many big accounts as they possibly can. This doesn't change that. The LB will still be the LB. And it's not all about getting the small players to be able to hit ASoF or LOTL. That's missed the point entirely. It's about helping players grow quicker. It's about clans being able to join together and work together. It's about allowing clans room to get a little stronger, to run faster ebs and to get to the next tier of ebs. How does that hurt the game?
I like this idea, no big clans will be growing as a family they are all hopping around to win events, and would help with brs and loyalty, not having to kick ur clannies every big eb, support, but maybe not 200 probably 150
He states he wants to increase the max slots in order to allow smaller players into big clans basically. I had to grow from small to large same as all other big players and used to co-own a clan with a min cs of 20 so I know about running clans too.
No, not basically. It's not to allow the small players to gain access to the big clans. Again, missed the point entirely. This allows clans to accept more members in order to run their ebs faster and to get into that next tier. It can strengthen clans and get them to grow faster and to get to that next tier quicker than they'd have previously been able to. That does not necessarily mean allowing a smaller player getting into a bigger clan (note OP uses the word SMALLER not SMALL). It's more about working together. And so what if they're smaller than the average BC account? Most of us are, doesn't mean we can't hit ASOF or LOTL successfully. Everyone has to grow from small to big. Who ever said anything about becoming a massive stat player over night? And good for you, you ran a clan. So have I. That however is not relevant to this thread in the slightest.
Let me put this simply for you. Limiting clans on cs is an awful idea as it actually makes growth detrimental for large clans. Pretty much all of night's ideas are basically take from the rich give to the poor ideas which is great as an ideal but not so great as a game strategy. Also the clan running thing is a simple thing I added on simply because I used to be small and ran a clan and I know of the struggles of running a clan. If you want to succeed try growing as a clan together instead of creating these ideas which completely ruin the balance of kaw. Once again the majority of large clans wouldn't take on smaller players they would just take on as many large players as possible. This would make all the bigger clans bigger and all the smaller clans would be stuck with smaller less active players making the gap worse. So no this idea won't get any support from me or anyone who understands how bad this idea is.
It DOES NOT limit clans on CS. The limit would be the size of 100 BC players. That already is the max allowed in a clan! Larger clans don't have to take on smaller accounts if they don't want too. That's completely their decision. But it allows for smaller accounts to come together in one clan and get stronger because they can now run say TS instead of SS.
Yes so lets say a large clan which has a lot of large players in most of whom are BC. They would only get a few extra slots. A clan who is smaller would actually benefit more from this as they would get to use all 200 slots. In all honesty this would just make the bigger clans bigger and the smaller clans left with semi active alts or banks. This would kill plenty of clans and hurt kaw more than it would help it. Please explain to me without just saying this idea is great how it would benefit kaw more than it would hurt it.
So they can use all 200 slots, what's the problem? Their combined strength would still not exceed that of a clan with 100 BC builds (i.e. the LB clans). Those 100 BC would still exceed the clan with 200 because they would likely have better BFA and BFE. The LB will still be the LB. Even if they manage to fill 200 slots with half BC accounts (which would be difficult and they would still be a minority like the LB), those accounts would likely be hitting ASoF or LOTL anyway, they just might not be able to get into clans with 150M CS. So they get to come together and run it. Really though, this would benefit the small to mid players the most. Rather than there being 3 struggling clans with 50 members hitting haunts, they could come together and hit maybe TSG instead (just an example). Rather than two clans who are hitting TS and AFF but aren't quite strong enough on their own, they can join together and start running ASoF. They can get stronger together. They're just two quick examples off the top of my head but I hope it illustrates my point that by allowing the smaller to mid range clans to bring in some extra members, it actually improves the game. Players will grow a bit faster, hit better ebs and grow together as a clan. This doesn't suddenly short cut the long road that is BC. Does it have the potential to make it easier? Certainly. But it's not an over night growth spurt. Clan members will still be working together but perhaps they can reach their goals just a little bit quicker.
Support::also adding to this thread,more needs to be done to encourage clan loyalty,, yes players running around like headless chickens after this or that eb because there home clan can just not complete the higher tier ebs. Allow a larger clan limit will resolve this for smaller builds
You grew during an easier time in kaw. When there were no events and air lands didnt exist. But anyway. Because no one helped you you oppose a suggestion purely because it would help others? You also aren't the only one that has owned a clan. And where are they now? Many clans cannot keep their bigs as they are running off to hit fast big epic battles that are directly linked to drops for events as such smaller clans struggle now more than ever. Allowing people a new method to combine strength to compete common objectives makes sense in a changing kaw. It will still mean that clans are stacked in tiers. Members will only be able to hit up to a certain level. Allowing 200 5 mcs accounts into a clan will do nothing against lotl. So that argument is moot. As I said. This will help new accounts hit ebs in a faster time allowing them to see more visible growth. It will make old ebs more relevant for newer players. It will allow mids to be able to compete more evenly despite the loss of their bigs to larger clans. It compensates for the current structure of kaw. Yes it means proposing another change. But if things don't change and evolve they die. Helping player retention is good for the game. Compensating for issues created albeit unforeseen by the devs events and the manner with which players respond in a competitive manner that in the process damages the lower structure and tiers of the game is necessary at times. To not react to bigs jumping ship and events destroying clan unity at lower levels will result in just a couple of powerhouse clans and an ever dwindling player base. Something that I would like to discuss ways of preventing.
There is not one element of this that takes from the rich as you put it. You just don't want others to receive any help. 1 the combined stats of large clans is ALREADY IN PLACE. the maximum any clan can have is 100 players build complete. 2 just because you do not like an idea does not make it a bad one. Nor does it give you the right to trash every proposal made. You argued on the prior thread because it would take away free rewards for you. A point that was proven. You now argue this on the assumption it will not have large clans support smaller members and other ideas based solely on your opinion. Well that differs to mine and other people's. they are allowed their say regardless of your opinion. You don't like it. Understood move on and let others have their say. Leave the thread and let others speak.
I see what you're getting at could be a good way to solve the gap still think these big EB's need a major decrease in drops though.