KaW_Admin, I'm sure you guys have noticed this as you have real time data about number of folks logged in, etc, but with the failure of the war system and now the super crazy long feather hunt, we've seen a rather significant decrease in activity across all of our clans. Many folks who have logged on daily for years are now "going to take a few days off" or deciding not to run their alts anymore or simply just disappearing. In the last month we have seen at least 20 people quit or significantly decrease their playing time. With alts included, that's at least 30-40 accounts total. We are especially seeing this the day after each of our horrible war matchups (Exodus over and over, RH, La Resistance, etc). After the war, everyone comes back from the war clan to our main clan and sub clan....and then logs off. They barely talk, they don't unload, they just log off and don't come back for a day or more. So, since we can't fix everything else, let's at least figure out a way to fix the war system. Small tweaks and changes clearly aren't working. The real issue isn't roster size (although it plays a role) and it certainly isn't KO times or things like that. The issue really isn't even matching....it's the flawed system that promotes certain specific builds or sizes and essentially rules out all others. So, easy fix....just duplicate your war system so there are two wars each clan can sign up for, "Heaveryweight Division" and "Lightweight Division" (or some other name, you decide). No major changes, no altering hit ranges for all of KaW or anything like that, no altering payout amounts, no huge changes to the matchup system, no changes to anything at all except for one specific thing. EE Wars "Heavyweight Division" requires every person on the roster to be OVER 10m CS. This is BUILD STATS ONLY so a small build with lots of allies and equip won't work. You have to really legitimately have 10 million in stats from your buildings. I'm sure it isn't that hard to add a section into the program to check folks for compliance. A clan signing up for these wars with a member under 10m CS gets their clan bumped just like if they tried to sign up with too many or too few members who have cast WoC. EE Wars "Lightweight Division" requires every person on the roster to be UNDER 10m CS. Again, based on build stats ONLY so a small build with huge BFA and BFE can still war here, even if their true strength is over 10m. This would not only remove the roster stacking issue but it would make all builds possible to war with. The smaller folks would all war together and pay somewhat reasonable amounts. The larger folks would never have to deal with the ridiculously stacked rosters. You'd still have roster stacking to a small extent but never the leaderboard/SH setup. It wouldn't be perfect but nothing ever is. What it would do is fix the one major issue that everyone hates and that drives everyone crazy. And just think, all of those thousands of players that are not SH or huge CS would actually get to war and do well. A 7-9m CS atk build would be great in the lightweight division. So would a 9m CS towered hansel. Right now I have folks in our sub clan tell me they wanna war and ask what they need to do. I look at their buid and the only advice I can give is "Keep hitting eb's for a year and triple your CS". If we just had 2 wars to choose from that were set up for the approriate sizes, all of these folks could actually war (and could drop xstals and buy more xstals as a result, yay for more income!!). So, no major changes. No significant rework of the system, just duplicate it. No need to alter how the fundamental basis of KaW and pvp actions works. Just make 2 war systems with two different size requirements. Problem solved and no more seething hatred. You'll always get the small complaints but at least we wouldn't see people quitting the game on a daily basis out of frustration.
1. After you make a thread its automatically on the AT. 2. I feel like in the Lightweight there would be massivestacking. Get someone just barly under 10mil cs then he could have 1T in allies and be just massive and you get the same problem, basically. And people are going to be quitting. Its a game it happens. People quit for awhile and come back. Some people dont. Some people take breaks nd slow down. Some dont. Its not just the wars causing your members to quit. So recruit new members. Simple as that. If you dont want to recruit new members then join a different clan.
Yes, you'd likely see stacking in the Lightweight Division but not as bad as it currently is. And quite fankly if you wanna roll that way and be the best AAA team there is, go for it. (Tis the season for baseball references) And yes, thank you for your insight on running a clan. Been doing it for awhile so I'm kinda familiar with how it works. The point I was making is that we very rarely have folks quit. We've been ranked top 10-20 in strength for quite awhile and most of our peeps are long term, very regular members. Seeing this many quit or go inactive is unprecendented for us. Losing one a month, sure, seen that....losing one a day? That's huge and appears to be happening in a number of other clans as well.
Another point I forgot to add in is that having 2 divisions based on size would almost completely remove the "No match due to poor hit ratio". Every clan that signed up would almost certainly have good hit ratios with every other clan in their division. If you signed up to war....you'd get a match almost every time. Everyone that would love to never see TVP again, raise your hand.
I like the idea, If you complain about people stacking on 9,5 mil cs. Think about how many sh are stacking already. I think this could really get more builds to war. If it would fix the matching, I hope but I am not sure about that. But the more people are warring, the more fun it is Support from me!
Haventvi said this in two different threads without being buried in the garble around and downplaying everyone else's suggestions. There is too much involved in this wall of text, its a simple tweak to the dts/dtw system. Forget this long drawn explanation! No Support, too blah blah blah!
The problem is that the Devs have made it clear that they will not adjust the DTW/DTS settings. They indicate that it would require a change in all of KaW, not just EE wars. They're not willing to do it even though it would provide a solution. So, if they won't change DTW/DTS settings...then how do you keep builds with such a large CS difference out of the same wars?.....by making two separate wars for them.
As someone pointed out above, a 9.5MCS build with massive allies and equipment would rule the lightweight divison. Yes it is not a "LB" build, but it is effecitvely the same thing if it cannot be reasonably hit successfully by anyone else. In my opinion it is not the 'hit ratio" that is the problem--but rather the %chance of success hit ratio problem. Let me explain--the LB/SH roster stack works only because the LB players cannot be effectively hit by the vast majority of the opposing clan (by "effectively hit" I mean hit with a reasonable possibility of success by the attacking player). That means the only viable option for those players is to either "fail bomb" the LB players or hit the SH (if the SH is not dtw to them) which pays crap--all while being skimmed on by the LB players. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that the choice between small chance of success or small payout really is not a choice at all. It is a recipe for a loss. It seems to me that instead of asking whether a kingdom can simply hit another kingdom, the devs algorithm should be based on whether a certain kingdom at 50% strength has above X% chance of success on the other kingdoms when at 50% strength (whatever X is chosen to be--but it had damn well be better than 20%). Why 50%--I won't go into it here, but static stats like BFA, BFE are more effective at lower strengths. I think that static stats should be weighed differently than diminishing stats (like troop strength), but that is my opinion. Yes, that means that clans will have a much narrower range of CS (one interesting suggestion in another thread--I don't recall who posted it--is that signups be limited to clans where all members participating in the war must be able to hit each other). With a specified % of success matching system, LB clans will be forced to war with mostly LB sized players (clash of the titans), mid-tier clans will war mid-tier players (the AAA farm team) and smaller clans with smaller players (noob central). But at least everyone will be hitting in their own weight class. Just a thought. Cheers, Kage.
Yeah, the "everyone must be able to hit eachother without DTS message" was first proposed by -__Polaris__-, the old co-owner of my clan. I was pushing it as a solution for awhile too but the devs don't seem to be biting at it and the curse is that it could vary if the #1 guy hired a number of allies post matchup. I honestly don't think the stacking in Lighweight would be as big of an issue though. As you point out, static bonus like BFE has a much larger effect with lower stat builds. Yes, the strongest folks will always be the strongest in any division but it would at least be better than it is now. I have a SH build with large BFA (built to defend our sub clan, not originally built for EE). When I use him in EE wars, I can hit 9.5m cs folks all day. I've also seen others in our sub clan that could hit them just fine (go with more atk buildings and less towers to get through). I just don't see them dominating like the leaderboard accounts currently do. Also, when that 9.5m CS guy gets tired of the SH hitting him and hits back...he'll at least make an okay plunder. Not as much as hitting another 9.5m guy of course but he'll make a lot more than a 23m CS build hitting a SH. Again, it's not perfect but better. This idea wouldn't fix everything but it would almost certainly entice more folks to war than the system that is currently in place.
Don't know if it was mentioned on this thread yet. If it was, direct me to it. The simple way to fix EE/Chaos Wars is to take BFE out of the warring algorithm. You can see a 5 LB/big and 6 SH clan going up against 3 big, mids, and 1 SH because the stacked roster took off equipment to get matched against us. (Chaotic Pride - Test War 1 against who cares.)
Not mentioned in this thread but I dont' think you'd see quite as much of that with a split roster war system. Maybe in the upper division but as a strategy it would lose a lot of its value. The reason for clans to do that (similar to the reason for SH) is to lower the combined strength of the clan. Lower strength means a matchup with a weaker clan. Well, if all of the clans are strong in the Heavyweight Division then what's the point? You'll never match the significantly weaker clan because those weaker clans with smaller builds are all in a different war system. I bet you'd still see some of it but I can't think that it would have as much of a useful effect like it does now.
Just bring back the ways of EE wars like how it first came to kaw...those who had experience it during those times would have agreed it was fun...yes its a long 4hrs wars..but its fun...random matchups...surprises here and there...not one clan stacks their rosters during those times...smalls,mids and bigs all fight together during that long EE wars...
A few more divisions might be necessary with hf buildings and T4 incoming. And stacking will always be a problem. If there is an easy way to win, everyone aside from canadians will exploit to the fullest.