Well... i came back to the KaW a few weeks ago with the hopes that it would be enjoyable again. However, i have noticed something rather appalling that i will get to soon. I have been around these parts since December 26, 2009. I have enjoyed every area of the game with my favorite being off system warring and politics. Back in the day the trending builds were 100% offensive based builds, or in other words: There were no tower builds. People actually hit and stripped eachother consistently with a balance of smack talk in there somewhere. This was because there was less to lose, and these people had chutzpah. Back then the spending wasn't off the charts as it has been since the release of in game Epic Battles that require $5-6 USD to open. Some clans are doing an average of 33 of these a day. So you do the math. "People these days spend crazy insane amounts of money in KaW, and I wouldn't go for leaderboards even if i came back to the game." -Majesty (In a conversation I had with him a around a year after HTE came out). Nowadays, people have a lot to lose, and they want to protect it. In addition, this with the combination of EE wars has lead to a HEAVILY towered build meta. No doubt, this turtle meta is fabulous for EE wars as well as deincentivizing strips, and if stripped to protect the gold. Now, some of the biproducts of this Meta that I have experienced and noticed include: •Smaller clans can't compete with bigger clans that not only outnumber them, but also outgun them in off system war. •People no longer hit consistently in osw, but sit behind towered builds and talk smack all day to eachother. (I first noticed this when ireg had 20 BC accounts with good BFA and BFE dumping fail steals into him all day long for weeks). •It takes a rediculous number of people to clear a strip on one of these towered builds. • The PvP events emerging are not as fun because you can't fight from pin unless you have an ungodly amount of BFA and BFE and/or pick on much smaller accounts with little to no towers. If you want to hit successfully in this event you have to crystal and risk losing 11.2k event items a hit if the crystal is caught. (This has led much larger accounts to hit smaller accounts during this PvP event, and I know this firsthand because I did this and was still losing a significant amount of offensive steal actions from full spies on towered builds half my size when I have 3.2B spy attack BFE and an added 350m spy attack BFA.) •This last one is one of the reasons I opted out after holding a top 10 position from pin for the first 3 days by picking on smaller accounts with little to no Towers, BFE, and BFA. Now, there are other reasons I opted out, but I include this because it is relevent to this post. Additionally, I have sent feedback to the developers, as I bet everyone else has done encouraging them to tighten the hit ranges if they do another event like this. However, The problem with this is that I couldn't win over 4 steals on a towered build in my range even if I pinned its spies first, crystalled, and then dumped a fb of steals into it...trust me i've tried it severall times during this event. If the hit ranges are tightened, then an event like this would be even more broken then it already is. NOW, MY PROPOSED SOLUTION: But first, some KaW build mechanics reviewing to shed some light on why I propose these solutions. Key: When I say, "Troop and Spy level," i am referring to how full your bars are. 1. Your stats from non-towered buildings (so troop/spy buildings) drop in percent with your troop and spy levels. 2. Your percent equipment drops in stats with your troop and spy levels. 3. Towers do not drop in stats with your troop and spy level. 4. If i am stealing a player with a total of 300m spy defense, and he is full spies, and i am half spies, and 150m/350m of his spy defense is from towers, then i will lose the action. There is a very slight chance that i will hit through that successfully. The mechanics are so screwed up in this game at the moment that it blows my mind, and that is just one scenario. I might get two wins from full? 5. Towered builds kill more of your troops and spies upon action. Another area of mechanics that i want to layout real quick is the LOSS of gold on the defenders part when an attacker successfully performs an attack or steal. 1. To my knowledge, on a successful attack the defender loses 3 percent of the gold that they have out. 2. To my knowledge, on a successful steal the defender loses .2 percent of the gold that they have out. THE PROPOSED MECHANIC CHANGE: The point of this mechanic change is to overall bridge the gap between bigger and more powerful osw clans and alliances with smaller and less powerful clans and alliances (or just EB noobs who want to step up to the challenge and defend themselves. Now, how do we accomplish this without affecting EE warring builds? • I propose that the amount of gold out lost by a defender when successfully attacked is increased from 3 percent per attack to 6 percent per successful attack. • I propose that the amount of gold out lost by a defender when successfully stolen from is increased from .2 percent per steal to 4 percent per successful steal. • This mechanic is only applied to builds with more than 16 percent of their total combined stats coming from any form of towers. • After the the mechanic change takes place, all players will have 24 hours to tear down buildings in order to readjust their build with a 100 percent refund from buildings. ••••Desired Direct Impact on the Meta•••• •This mechanic change will deincentivize towered builds, and allow smaller clans and alliances to do damage to larger ones. (Lets face it, whether these changes happen or not Apocalypse alliance can still clear X amount of gold from you in seconds). •This will incentivize strips again, and make player vs player combat fun again, as well as exciting, thrilling, and balance out trash talk with hitting because if you don't keep someone in pin then you gonna be losing some gold! •This mechanic change will not affect EE warrers because they all war with no gold out, and allies cannot be purchased by them or bought from them during war. ••••Biproducts of this Mechanic Change•••• (Assuming it accomplishes the above goals) •It sets the developers up to make a balanced change to the hit ranges without affecting PvP too much. It also allows them to tighten the hitting ranges for events without making it near impossible for you to get wins on people in your hitting range as builds with over 16 percent of their total combined stats coming from towes will fall out of the meta. •Will deincentivize Leaderboard botting as they are forced to either keep their towers and lose more gold for the time that they are out of pin, and/or get stripped, or they are forced to change builds making them easier to hit and lose gold if they are in OSW. (This is a big one for many of us) (I MAY BE WRONG ON SOME MECHANICS BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN GONE, BUT PLEASE LET ME KNOW AND I WILL ADJUST IT. FURTHERMORE I AM UP TO SUGGESTIONS WHEN IT COMES TO CHANGING THE PERCENTS FOR THE MECHANIC CHANGES THAT I HAVE PROPOSED. JUST LET ME KNOW OR DISCUSS IT HERE). Thank you all for the read, I really hope this speaks out to the community and these changes or something like them happen. Hopefully we can come to an agreement and the developers listen to the consensus on such mechanic changes... I really feel like this tower meta is killing the very base that this game was created upon, OSW. -LWPiNDaHiZZY
Excellent thread! As illustrated in the above picture, I'm all for increased gold lost by the defender hiding behind towers..
If the devs feel this would allow for fixing the hit range in the future, I'm all for it. My personal issue with pvp in this game is I'm small. At 40m cs, I can hit down to about 16m. I can be hit down from 250m cs. The hit ranges don't make sense, I've spent hours upon hours upon hours trying to figure the hit ratio algorithm out. The hit ranges punish anyone under 400m cs, but under 100m is the worst. So if this leads to that, I'm okay with this. However I don't see it being particularly game changing.
From my experience in the game, it would be firsthand game changing, and also lead up to that hit range adjustment. So just take my word for what would happen as a direct result of these changes, and hit ranges being adjusted would follow as a biproduct.
What I meant by that was outside osw, it wouldn't change anything. Basically this game has 3 parts. Osw. Ee. Ebs. Towers don't matter for ebs. Towers are too important in ee, nor will the gold loss affect ee, at least if I'm understanding the idea correctly. It will affect osw, but only on smaller clans. As you said in op, apoc will clear in a minute with or without this change. And honestly, I don't think anyone will drop their towers just because extra gold loss. It wouldn't make them that much easier to strip, if at all. It reduces the number of successful actions required, but how many fails are there? I'd be willing to bet, even with this change, the number of actions required end up being the same. This is what I mean by it not being entirely gamechanging. I think it will change a part of the game, but there's still 2 other parts it wouldn't affect.
In the art of Rhetoric, and Persuasive writing and speech giving a back story at the start is required for establishing credibility by experience and also drawing the audience in.
The amount if successful actions required would change drastically. Currently you need well over 2000 successful steals with unholy aura on to clear a strip even with an attack build skimming on the target. This would level the playing field for clans such as Zaft Carnage. Without really giving Apoc the upper hand...seeing as half of KaW are currently in Apocalypse alliance. So, many people would drop towers to accomodate such changes. This also incentivizes many many retired osw players to come out of eb fairyland and osw again. Furthermore, the amount of successful actions on accounts would rise if a person is hitting an account around their combined stats with 16 percent or less of the defenders combined stats coming from towers.
Umm... it will actually reduce the amount of successful steals/skim by quite a bit to "clear".. I think OP is also trying to bring the true PvP aspect to be more exciting (osw, EE, eb.. and PvP).. It is true this won't effect EE and EB too much (less tower will bring faster gold on ebs) The fact that not many players care about "bars to clear" is a sign of what OP is trying to fix.. There will always be the APOC's.. the mid size osw's were where the fun was.. thos can help bring that alive again. Might as well bring the bombs back while we're at it!.. minefields were fun
For clarification, is it 16% of building total, like it is in build mechanics, or is it 16% of cs? If it's the first one, that really won't change anything. You could have 12 or towers at that ratio? If it's the second one, I would assume it would require an entire mechanic overhaul. And even then, 16% of 1b is 160m. Which is only a little bit less than bc players run with already. I would also like to point at this point, that I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm sure you know the mechanics better than I do. But these are questions that ata has to ask before even considering it. They have numbers we don't. As I said, I support the idea on the basis that it will lead to hit range fix. But even if it completely revolutionizes osw, it still won't have that big of an impact on kaw as a whole. Osw is a sadly miniscule portion of kaw.
You make many good points. One thing I will say is that if this takes action, it will be a much more entertaining and worthwhile game. GaW was great for pvp and had a good mechanics system. I believe that if the devs actually listen to a good idea such as this, it will improve player base satisfaction. I make a reference to GaW because, lets face it. GaW was an incredible game in the sense of pvp, and the players who took the time to grow and osw ACTUALLY STAYED UNTIL THE END. Strips and farming had a huge impact in osw, and you had to actually hit back or stay pinned. 100% support, kick ass thread op
You also both say it reduces successful actions. I said that in one of the walls of text as well. What I also said is that it wouldn't change the number of required hits. Fails and succeeds. 2000 succeeds are necessary, give or take, at .2%. At 4%, I think it would go down to around 800. Give or take. I guarantee there will be at least 1200 fails in the middle of that strip, trying to get to 800. So as I mentioned the total required action between stripping a towered build with this new mechanic, and stripping a no towered build would not be that different. The only difference is the number of successes.
1. 16% of total Combined stats. 2. Actually, most BC players have over 200m towers. When i gave 16% i am referring to both adt and sdt combined, of which some have 160m of each if not more. Lastly, osw is the largest part of KaW. At least 70 out of the top 200 LB are currently in OSW. And i cite Vixen from kotfe on that as a secondary source.
Yes, it would take less required successful hits, but more hits would get through. If i am hitting an account with 16% or less of its total cs coming from sdt during a strip then i am going to win 11-15/18steals if it is around my size. If i hit an account with more than 16% of its cs coming from sdt then i will win 7/18 steal actions. Also take into perspective a lot of people have both adt and sdt, so they could split it into 8% adt and 8%sdt should a change like this take place. This means you will be getting a LOT more actions that are successful.
70 out of 200. Out of lb. The 130 are eb clans, and nearly 99% outside of that are eb clans. Let's also take out the what, 7 kotfe clans alone. I will agree that osw is bigger than the ee playerbase. But over 70% of the active playerbase are fairies. And that I will stick to believing until the devs give hard evidence otherwise. Either way, we shouldn't devolve this into a thread comparing statistics. They don't hold much purpose in the op, which I still support. Another thing to be mentioned is that this will further decrease build diversity. Towers are most often used on attack builds/attack heavy hybrids to prevent strips. Everyone will just convert to hansel. Not that I'm entirely opposed to that, nor do I know for a fact that it will happen that way. But it's a possible outcome, which very well could destroy this game. Things that need to be looked at from a developer viewpoint.
Yes, I get that, but it's still 2000 actions with no fails. The point was that it wouldn't change a thing. It's 2000 actions either way. That was the point.
I can tell you this: well over half of those LB fairy clans and LB players that aren't part of that 70/200 have been in osw before and actually enjoy it. I said a lot of old vets have stopped osw playing because of this turtle meta. This will have an overall ripple affect on KaW that you still fail to see because you lack the experience. Which is fine, but don't sit there and make hasty generalizations. Also 70/130 lb is over 50% with most of the others capable of OSW, and have been in them before. For example, take -OK-, he used to be a Voodoo leader. That guy is experienced in osw and has no problem engaging someone in a fight. Yet, he is an EB fairy now. Now for a clan, take kreuz, that clan is osw ready and will fight anyone if/when necessary.
" Hit and be hit " is the name of the game.Stop all the interigation cross examining and un-nessasary fussing into the mechanics.It's fine just how it is. Time wasted trying to find problems what aint there when you could just use it playing and enjoying the game.The only thing that does need changing is stats up and stats down and who they can attack. i say you are unable to attack anyone lower than 50mcs than your stats .And cant hit anyone higher than 75mcs than your stats.To make it fairer for smaller accounts.
Huge support for this. Moving aside from bc players, and towards nearer my stats (110mcs or so). At least a third of people near my cs have a setup something like the following: 30m/30m/15m/75m Or 11m/70m/20m/20m It's honestly a little infuriating (yes, yes, I know that's the point of a hyper-defensive build), and always feels like an unnecessary exploitation. They're dead accounts in pvp. They don't take much for themselves, and nobody wants to bother hitting them back.