And what obstacle is this? People talk of an obstacle to be overcome but I have no idea what you are referring to? Is it whining that you have to spend more gold to get HLBC? What is it?
So, why not make it so if an attack builds troops are zeroed (spies above 20%) he's open for attacks?
@ philo. You wrote a great story but you truly suck at debating. I'll show you why and not in any particular order 1. Tower build was an exploit. PROOF devs nerfed it. Argument NULL 2.a spy can be stripped exactly the same as an attack build. Even an 11m spy turns into exactly the same stats on spies as a 1 SOS build of 64k spy stats. All it takes is pinning a spy's spies. You can't attack strip an attack build either so your argument there is NULL 3. A spy build can't be hit by an attack build with zero gold out. But an attack build can be dtw to steals with zero gold. Give and take right there. Argument NULL 4. About the referral comment. You were grasping at straws their. Obviously cyn meant that taking one MECHANIC of the game opens another unwanted on usually. And you went and threw referral codes into it lololol. That has nothing to do with MECHANICS of the game. Argument..... NULL 5. An attack build can very easily outplay a spy build. The only true deciding factors would be crystal usage and activity. There are very good strategies involved in gaining the upperhand on a spy build. You obviously don't know them. I'd say pm me and I would tell you them, but then I'd see it here on forums and kind of don't want all attack builds to know how to easily defeat a spy build. So.... NULL There are many things I saw you make a rebuttal to that were all VERY wrong but as I just smoked and on cloud9 I can't remember everything your very longwinded(but totally incorrect) post contained. I'll come back shortly to debate your other points
The was a pretty lousy dissection. You took from it what you wanted to. I expected nothing less, though. No, one attack build cannot 0 spies by scout bombing. But then again wars are about teamwork aren't they? I can't pin an attack build's troops by draining my troops on it either. And evidently, I wasn't the only one who thought tower builds were an exploit seeing as THE DEVS changed the mechs to virtually prevent tower builds. Ok change spy builds force us to have more attack buildings turn us into hybrid. Spy actions will still dominate strip wars. Only thing that would accomplish is reducing the diversity of in game build types. I painstakingly did read the whole OP, and like you, chose to address what I felt needed addressing. Yah you can declare war, you can also decline that declaration can't you? Fight on your own terms and where you feel most comfortable. I appreciate your forgiveness, never said anyone mentioned me specifically, I was simply speaking in a generality and speaking for myself and my preferred build for osw. (I realize now i did not specify 'better for me'. Everyone has their preferences.) My proof for KaW getting easier is right in yours and everyone's faces it's unbelievable. From the pwar invasion and to now EBs you can HLBC an account without touching another player and not risk being hit. If that isn't easier I don't know what the hell you would consider easier. The knight (continuing with the metaphor) can have the same advantage by striking when least expected. And in KaW, attacks take a vast amount more gold than steals do. I did not present a solution because unlike you, I see no problem with spy power in wars here. Don't put words into my mouth. And really, the best build in osw technically would be a pure spy which you should know all about since every time I have farmed you with my troops you would drop your attack building and your allies and hide there as a pure spy unable to lose anything besides regen time - burning a couple pots every now and again. A bit hypocritical for someone who is against snooping and turtling in combat isn't it? I am a permanent hansel, plan to keep a high BFA because going into combat with literally nothing to lose is pointless. Attack builds play a large role in strips and I'm not sure why you seem to be ignoring that. They can be the primary means of gathering funds and clearing banks to prep for the strip, also having an attack build do double tap attacks on the strip target every 5-10 minutes increases the target's losses dramatically. And for the rest of the time in osw when strips aren't being run (which is truly the 90% of the time at war - you got it backwards), attack builds are doing a huge portion of the fighting including helping to potburn, neutralizing the spies of their opponents with scout bombs, and fighting/pinning their opposite numbers on the enemy side. An attack build will also go DtW if it is attacked too much during a strip run its not like hansels are the only build who goes DtW from being attacked. I don't see how that argument against hansels is really solid. You want those mechs to work both ways (1 spy building/1 attk building) then have steals take as much as attacks. Yes, I do realize that isn't what you are proposing but that was a pretty crappy argument. In a nut shell, you can force players to have to have a certain number of attack builds but that WILL NOT change the fact that strips during osw will continue to be the best way to dishearten your opponent and take their money. All I see proposed here is more limitations and constrictions regarding a narrow spectrum of the playing field, wanting to add training wheels for the other side's benefit when they are not needed. Attack heavy builds have the means to defend against strip runs. Oh noes! You're being 'forced' to convert your build away from easy money making EB machine to a build that can protect itself from other players better!!! What ever shall we do??? Adapt.
Nvmnd I wont come back to those other points as cyn obviously covered them quite nicely. Except the point where you took a shot at him and called him a turtle and said he could declare war whenever he wanted(which he didn't catch I guess lol). Except it seems you are the one who actually turtles into a pure spy. Js
I don't see why anyone would complain about something like this, when nowadays everyone knows that the best way to counter spy builds is the stable build! Those with stable builds only have a minimal amount of soldiers from the castle, so even if all those troops have been assassinated, if they let all those horses loose, the enemy spies will get trampled into pudding.
@ clumsy Their will always be an obstacle it will never be perfect. And who is wining? First it was great attack and def then spy came out in force which lead to turtle. Then became a hancil deal. Know you want way more attack. It will never be perfect. I think the only one complaining is you. Wanting to change more stuff. So what your trying to do is make a huge change that just wont work but still. Lets just see how things change if this actually goes to your plan. And see what obstacle comes in to counteract with your plan
Philo attack build can strip another attack build just as effectively as a spy build can. especially with the new attack pot that their is no counter to. What you are proposing is a removal of the strip mechanic in a very roundabout way. Don't like being stripped? Don't piss off someone who will strip you. Don't join strip wars. Two simple solutions that dont require any new lands or mech changes.
Basically I'm saying if you don't know how to counter a spy build you better either learn how or swallow your damn pride. Ad that's not directed at philo but at everyone complaining of a spy builds non existent advantage
In EE battles, I am assuming spy builds are a lot more effective because a huge amount of the wars is pinning and Attack Builds can't do that nearly as effective as spy builds. Spy builds can't get plunder nearly as effectively as attack builds, but at least they counter other pure spies quite nicely as they can steal from them.
Steal in EE? Lmao no. And as a hansel, get an attack build to 20% troops and i win most of the time (T4 HLBC) then i simply knock him out, attack builds can quite easily kill spy builds, learn to counter, or do as mickey says lmao i promise it isnt that had to kill a spy with good strategy
And osw is dominated by spies yes, give a full clan of spies, nothing to lose right? Yep thats right. UNLESS you can find something valuable.. This requires alot of effort though. Late nights, misleading tracking data, etc.. But attack builds can strip pure spies (granted they have allies) easier than spies can strip atk builds
Spy builds only dominate because people don't know how to deal with them. Pots. Storing gold in bronze bars are ways of dealing with a full on strip.
My reply to Mickey: You wrote a great story but you truly suck at debating. Much respect to you, Mickey, but I also think you should try out for the debate team this year. Here is my rebuttal. 1. Tower build was an exploit. PROOF devs nerfed it. Devs have nerfed a great many things. Pwars, the life and blood of the spy build/Hansel build, was also nerfed, showing the devs do not want to make it easy to make a big spy build. 2.a spy can be stripped exactly the same as an attack build. Even an 11m spy turns into exactly the same stats on spies as a 1 SOS build of 64k spy stats. All it takes is pinning a spy's spies. Again this assumes it is easy to pin a spy build in the first place, hence you comment “all it takes”. Most pure spies don’t really carry allies, so why bother stripping them? Yes, hansels can be stripped, but the majority of that work is done by other spy builds, most attack builds fail at the half-way point because their puny spies cannot overcome the equipment bfa of the victim. You can't attack strip an attack build either so your argument there is NULL Ummm....attack builds get stripped of their allies all the time. Hence the term “fresh meat”. Argument VALID 3. A spy build can't be hit by an attack build with zero gold out. But an attack build can be dtw to steals with zero gold. Give and take right there. Argument NULL ???? Zero gold out? Are you serious here? If an attack build has zero gold out after a strip is complete it means the strip was SUCCESSFUL. Usually, when players get stripped, they have LOTS of gold out, indeed this is the whole PURPOSE of a strip: to release gold for stealing. What have you been smoking today Mic? However, a Hansel with gold out will go dtw after 20 or so attacks (not steals). An attack build cannot attack strip in the same fashion a spy build can steal strip. Argument VALID. 4. About the referral comment. You were grasping at straws their. Obviously cyn meant that taking one MECHANIC of the game opens another unwanted on usually. And you went and threw referral codes into it lololol. That has nothing to do with MECHANICS of the game. Argument..... NULL It was just an example. Want some mechanics? Again, the elimination of pwars, ie the ability for one build to make 300B plus in a two day period by claiming pwar tax, is a mechanic that has been taken out of the game and yet to be replaced. However, the damage has been done. Many players, (myself included) has used pwar tax to build huge spies in under two weeks. Argument.....VALID 5. An attack build can very easily outplay a spy build. The only true deciding factors would be crystal usage and activity. There are very good strategies involved in gaining the upperhand on a spy build. You obviously don't know them. I'd say pm me and I would tell you them, but then I'd see it here on forums and kind of don't want all attack builds to know how to easily defeat a spy build. So.... NULL OSW? OSW? OSW? You see attack builds getting the upper and in osw? How did Yafi bring down Osiris? They sent a clan of spy builds against them. How did Voodoo take down iG? Everyone converted to Hansel. Everyone knows spy builds take the upper hand in osw, even Cyn in his new clan thread stated that he is particularly interested in Hansel builds. Everyone knows that spies are the only way to really wage war. There are many things I saw you make a rebuttal to that were all VERY wrong but as I just smoked and on cloud9 I can't remember everything your very longwinded(but totally incorrect) post contained. I'll come back shortly to debate your other points Oh I see. You WERE smoking something. Lol Learn to share with your friends next time. Cheers.
Stupid idea to modify mechanics for spies. You must understand people build specific types of buildings in KaW because of the things they offer. Each build type has an advantage and disadvantage.
Basically, Mickey, both you and CYN and saying the same thing: attack builds are basically useless in osw, and we should all convert to hansel. And you are both right.Thanks why most of my builds are also hansels. Howerver, back to my orginal point, that is not a realistic model of real war, and not what the devs intended when they made this game. Of course I accept the realities of the game for what they are, but it is a little sad. On a final note, your advice to "not join osw" is not particularly helpful. Sometimes OSW comes to you, whether you like it or not. Osiris was an SW clan back in 2011, but was ruined by an osw they didnt want in the first place. Cheers.
Attack builds have no advantages in osw. They are basically fresh meat waiting around to be stripped.